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Post by Nobu Narukami on Apr 2, 2017 14:17:40 GMT -5
I just got Valkyrie Drive: Bhikkhuni (along Senran Kagura BA but that's for another thread, if I ever decide to do it), and so far, I'm having fun with the game. I definitely feels like a sister series to SK. Though, I will admit there a few cons to the game. My main complaint is that I've only played as Rinka, Ranka, and Mana, the latter two more often than Rinka, and I have yet to play as Momo, who I really to want to play as.
I know I just started the game, but I'm not fond of how it forces me to play as just two characters right after the beginning and neglect other potential playable characters. They tell us that they're infected with the special VR Virus that let's be Liberators and Extars at the same time, so why has it not occurred to them which roles sometimes (and let Momo be unlocked as early as the others, since it's pretty much established that Momo is a main character)?
Anyway, that's just me complaining about that aspect of the game. I'm still loving it, and if I keep playing, I'll unlock the others eventually.
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Post by Nobu Narukami on Apr 4, 2017 6:31:39 GMT -5
Okay, I'm just going to report how I'm doing so far on Bhikkuhni. This will be quite long, and that's because I'm pretty venting some of my rage about this game. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this post. I'm about halfway through, and things are not too bad. The gameplay definitely feels like a sister of sorts to Senran Kagura. However, there are some parts I'm confused about. Like the fact that in order to unlocks more clothes to buy at the shop, I need to play this Heart Catching mini game with the girls, in order to raise their levels in the dressing room, which is really weird, because in Senran Kagura, new outfits are easy to unlock by simply playing through the story, or fulfilling certain requirements in the level themselves. The outfits in VDB aren't that remarkable either, because they're simply recolored versions of the girls outfits. Although, it is fun to mix and match outfits between them, it makes you wonder if it's really worth it. I have a few DLC clothes, but it's not enough to bring meat to the table. As for the story and characters. Well, so far, the story is alright for the moment. But, I'm about to go wild within a few moments, because I will be talking about the characters. At least half the girls start to develop a little, especially Momo (my favorite character in the whole game), who went from a aloof loner to someone who starts to care for and value her friends, even if she denies it, which of course, is really cute. In fact, Momo is so cute, I wanna huge her and her kiss, and then let her kill me while she's blushing in embarrassment! . *Ahem*, moving on from my rant just now... In contrast to Momo (so cute), we have Mana... {Spoiler} I'm getting mixed feelings about her. On one hand, I like her design, and she was fine at the beginning, but on the other, as things progress, she makes very questionable decisions, and becomes a manipulative bitch. She sort of reminded me of Yumi, given the polite speech pattern and mature personality (not to mention sharing the same voice actress, Yumi Hara). But still, I'm starting to veer towards hating Mana with a passion, and that mainly has to do with her relationship to Momo.
At first, Mana tries to befriend Momo, who at the time was in her aloof ally stage, but she later shows signs of trying to use Momo to get into the elite class. And right after they lost to Viola and Manpukumaru (second favorite character in the game behind Momo), Mana straight up abandons Momo. She may have played it off as nothing, but to me, Momo most definitely was hurt by this betrayal. There two points where Mana openly mocks Momo, first time for not having any reason to fight, granted that was a catalyst for Momo's character development, so I can let that slide. But, in the second point, she tricks Manpukumaru into holding back and throwing a fight by promising her some food, and makes fun of them for playing into her hands. That made me so mad, I gave it everything I had in the next round with Rinka to beat Mana senseless for what she did to Momo and Manpukumaru.
Anyway, Ranka tries to respect her Rinka's wishes and not be so selfish about her sister. Rinka remains static, but I think that's fine with her character. But, I wonder what falling ill after fighting with Gouzanze will do? We'll so find out. Thanks for presumably staying toned. I'll probably make another post, reviewing the game once I've beaten it.
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Post by Poog on Apr 4, 2017 18:08:28 GMT -5
Your thoughts are kind of how I feel. VD:B gets a fair amount of praise, but I found it pretty underwhelming so far.
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Post by Nobu Narukami on Apr 4, 2017 21:54:32 GMT -5
Your thoughts are kind of how I feel. VD:B gets a fair amount of praise, but I found it pretty underwhelming so far. I can say with certainty that at the very least the game is character driven and everything has character development, much like everyone from SK.
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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 8, 2017 23:29:36 GMT -5
First thing first, so glad you've enjoying the game! Now let's go by parts I'm about halfway through, and things are not too bad. The gameplay definitely feels like a sister of sorts to Senran Kagura. However, there are some parts I'm confused about. Like the fact that in order to unlocks more clothes to buy at the shop, I need to play this Heart Checking mini game with the girls, in order to raise their levels in the dressing room, which is really weird, because in Senran Kagura, new outfits are easy to unlock by simply playing through the story, or fulfilling certain requirements in the level themselves. The outfits in VDB aren't that remarkable either, because they're simply colorings of the girls outfits. Although, it is fun to mix and match outfits between them, it makes you wonder if it's really worth it. I have a few DLC clothes, but it's not enough to bring meat to the table. The outfit selection is definitely the weakest part of the game, I'd like to know what was the reason behind only recolors of the girls' outfits are available and while the DLC outfits are pretty nice; they're still pretty few. Luckily the accessories allows you to make some interesting stuff with a little of creativity. I didn't mind the Heart Catcher minigame much since it was a nice way to take a break and while is true is weird you have to play it, the upside is that you can access all the extra stuff as soon you unlock the girls, making it somewhat of a fair trade. By the way, you will need to play the heart catcher anyway to access some secret areas hidden in many stages. Those elements that you mention are part of why I find Mana to be one of the most interesting characters on the game, she goes through a lot of stuff during the story and develops accordingly. Sure, her actions are polarizing at best but you can understand where is she coming from. The deck was stacked against her and she had to become ruthless as a mean to survive. The kicker is that she's doing exactly what the faculty expected from their students! Anyways, I'm looking forward to see what you think of her by the time you finish the story. Mana, Momo and Ranka are pretty much the story's main characters due all the development they get.
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Post by HomurasBra on May 3, 2017 1:28:39 GMT -5
Gotta say, Bhikkhuni is the only Takaki game I've played so far that has been a disappointment. I was expecting the game to be like Senran Kagura, but it's a little too similar to Senran Kagura. Outside of the combat it feels like the whole game is just some sort of mod for Shinovi Versus. It also inherited SV's worst quality, repetitiveness, and amplified it by cutting the number of playable characters down to 7 and reducing the number of maps as well. The story scenes were also overly long in proportion to the actual gameplay segments. You end up doing far more reading than playing.
The game does have some positives: The neon-tinged visuals are a nice touch, you get to fight non-human bosses (a much-needed reprieve from the monotony of the rest of the game), there are a few really nice character designs (Mana, Momo, and Viola), some of the optional character-bonding "scenes" are funny, there's a lobby to run around in and talk to the other characters (I was sad they removed this from Estival Versus) with an added minigame to unlock bonus scenes, there's actual character development (once again, sadly missing from most of EV), the yuri power-up cut-ins were great, and the game is entirely loli-free.
Unfortunately, those positive things are overshadowed by the game's biggest problems: 1: The game takes itself way too seriously for what it is. VDB is an ecchi game with voluptuous women in skimpy outfits that for some reason is trying to tell a dark story and expects you to take it completely seriously. The fanservice (during the story scenes) is nearly nonexistent compared to SK, and when it does happen it seems so out-of-place that it pulls you right out of the story. They did try to put in a few jokes here and there during the story, but they also clash with the atmosphere the game is trying to convey and come across as not funny. I think I laughed maybe 3 times so far during VDB's story, whereas during SKEV I was laughing constantly. Even VDB's comic relief character, Manpukumaru, usually comes across as irritating and seems like she belongs in a different game.
2: For a game with so few playable characters, VDB goes to great lengths to completely destroy nearly half the cast and turn them into completely unlikable assholes. I've never seen this level of character assassination before, especially where Mana is concerned. I really liked her at the start of the game. Now I want to pour gasoline on her and set her on fire. If Viola didn't have such a great design (and wasn't smoking hot), I'd probably hate her as well. Even Manpukumaru, who starts off as a victim of their schemes, ends up becoming manipulative in her own right.
I'm pretty close to the end of the game (just defeated the firebird pillar-god whose name eludes me). Have been since November. I haven't yet been able to motivate myself to slog through the rest of it.
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Post by tzitzimine on May 3, 2017 12:42:52 GMT -5
Gotta say, Bhikkhuni is the only Takaki game I've played so far that has been a disappointment. I was expecting the game to be like Senran Kagura, but it's a little too similar to Senran Kagura. Outside of the combat it feels like the whole game is just some sort of mod for Shinovi Versus. It also inherited SV's worst quality, repetitiveness, and amplified it by cutting the number of playable characters down to 7 and reducing the number of maps as well. The story scenes were also overly long in proportion to the actual gameplay segments. You end up doing far more reading than playing. Other than both games being of the action genre, having weak and strong attacks, there's little point of comparison between the versus games and Bhikkhuni. Senran Kagura as series has Aerial Raves as the core of its combat while Bhikkhuni's focus lies on effectively chaining your combos by using dodges and the phantom mechanics to raise your combo counter and earn attack boosts. Furthermore, you can't really translate one system to the other without losing a lot of elements that makes those work. You have to elaborate about what you think is repetitive about the game because both games are only as repetitive as the genre itself is. And Bhikkhuni has collectibles and secret missions spread on its stages precisely to add more "meat" to Story mode. Something that is sorely lacking on SV. Having less playable characters is more of a boon than an issue since the characters are better fleshed out and have widely distinct combat styles but without some having a noticeable advantage over the other as is the case with SV. Another thing you have to keep in mind is that Bhikkhuni doesn't have maps per se but multiple areas linked together to offer the feeling of actually exploring a full island instead of standalone arenas like SV. This is better appreciated on the final stages of the Order Route where you have to fight your way through from the Academy to the docks. The cutscenes being long is a necessary evil to carry the aforementioned development. As the first game in the series and one that only takes the basic setting from the anime, it does need a bigger amount of world building and giving more spotlight to the characters so the writing doesn't ends gimped. However, I've noticed that any complaint about the length of the cutscenes is nearly always paired about the seriousness of the plot and how "is not like Versus/Estival" so at this point I'm chalking that more to bias than actual criticism. I doubt "tapping static hearts" on the screen can be considered a mini game, unless you're talking of the heart catcher but that one is to unlock accessories on the Dressing Room, not the Romance Novels. Also, the character development happens within the plot. The romance novels only let you explore different facets of the characters and depending on the rate you unlock them, it can even spoil some of that development. This is a very subjective criticism, however, the tone of the plot is consistent through its entirety. Other than Viola and Manpukumaru's outfits (and those are justified by the narrative) I wouldn't qualify the girls outfits as skimpy. Any fanservice scene happens early where the world building is being done and disappears completely once the story kicks into high gear. Manpukumaru is not really a comic relief but a foil for the other characters. Her simple mindedness helps to anchor the other characters and she proves herself to be surprisingly insightful plenty of times. And if you want to laugh, that is what the romance novels are for. That's not character assassination, is development. Bhikkhuni's plot likes to take some classic cliches and turns them on their head to add depth to the characters. In Mana's case, the idea is to deconstruct the classic "good girl" type of character by putting her under constant stress. Her change of attitude is justified by the narrative and is an ongoing process that doesn't culminates until the very end of the story mode. Momo goes on a reverse direction of Mana's, mellowing out and shedding her anti social persona, Ranka has to come with terms with the fact she and Rinka won't agree all the time and so on. Even the Pillar Gods get a significant amount of development that makes difficult to fully support either side of the conflict. That said, the writing is not without its flaws. There are plot holes here and there, some elements of the setting need to be clearer, not every character gets the same amount of development (with some like Koharu and Viola would've benefitted from more focus) but the story holds up pretty well for the most part.
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Post by Nobu Narukami on May 3, 2017 18:17:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the game is a disappointment, but it is lackluster at best. I had fun with my run of VDB, even I found some things that frustrated me at times. Like how it seems the game tends to favor one character over the other at seemingly random points. In particular at the end of the Chaos route, after fighting Rinka as Ranka, we're forced to play as Ranka again for the final fight against Gundari. The game made it seem like we'd be playing as Rinka for that final fight, but instead we're railroaded into playing as Ranka for the final boss. This makes no amount of sense, because Rinka is pretty much the game's main protagonist, and she's the one who wants to leave the island the most, so why are we not allowed to play as her for the final round of the Chaos route?
Speaking of Ranka... I kind of feel like she was simply whining through most of the Chaos route. Sure, the revelation that everyone will be become weapons of war for an evil branch of world government, but that's no reason to think that your friends and family abandoned you and your sister, and then take it out on said sister.
Ranka isn't the only one. How they handled Mana's situation in the Chaos route just doesn't sit well with me. Koharu resigns as student head and allows Mana to take control, who quickly let's that position go to her already inflated ego, orders Koharu to go after Viola and anyone else he intends to leave the island. Later, Koharu reveals that the position of student head is basically worthless, and so is Mana for believing it would make her special. Ha! That part actually made me happy given how much I hated her, as her condescending behavior grew worse as things went on, but right after defeating her with Koharu, she breaks down crying, and everyone readily forgives her for her past action. It's explained that the virus amping up her aggression was part of why she became such a bitch and a tyrant, but they're still inexcusable in my book. (By the way, if there are any Mana fans who read this, don't take it personally. If you can get into her, that's fine. I'm just stating how I feel about it.)
Now, It mentioned how the frustrating parts of the story and characters, let's talk about other aspects of the game. As mentioned up above, the lobby, known as the dining room, is a welcome return, as we get interact with other the characters, something we couldn't do in Senran Kagura EV and BA. The dressing room is fun, but lacking due to have less outfits to wear. Underwear seems to be the most prominent collectables in the game, which is weird, because these collectables could have been a bunch of new clothes to wear. I said before that clothes in-game aren't very remarkable due to them being recolorings. I had just recently bought all the DLC outfits, so I have more clothes to choose from. Still feels lacking, though.
I like the romantic VN scenes in the dining room, because it is a nice change of pace from everyone trying to kill each other. This could definitely be a thing in the SK series, as we all have a favorite couple we'd like to pair together, don't we? Sadly, even that has some confusion to it, as we get only three pictures from the romance scenes, and they're all of Rinka with three other characters; Ranka, Momo, and Manpukumaru respectively. No one else has pics like these, which is odd.
The Heart Catching game gives not only unlockable hairstyles, colors, and again, underwear, there's a new award after maxing out a character, where after successfully giving a girl a perfect message, she instantly falls in love and now is okay with you groping her. You even get kiss her when the screen is zoomed in on her. Problem is, it's very easily to miss a few hearts, even when the heart pressed as it turns pink, it goes away like nothing happened. I guess it's a minor technical issue or something, but if it's going to be used again, I'd hope Takaki would fix this so wouldn't be so easy to screw up.
So yeah, I'm currently having trouble beating Gundari with, ugh, Ranka, mostly due to Ranka being underplayed. Even on easy mode, Gundari is a hard. So now I have to level grind under to be her. As soon as that's done, I'll go into the Order route.
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Post by HomurasBra on May 3, 2017 21:14:23 GMT -5
@ tzitzimine (not quoting directly to avoid cluttering the thread with omnislashing):
Yes, what I posted is biased. It's my personal opinion of the game so far, I never intended it to be taken as a critical review. Sorry if it comes across as abrasive, I've had it stewing in my head for months and only now found an outlet for it.
The repetitiveness I mentioned is indeed related to the genre and is also a factor in SV and EV, though to a lesser degree. Those two games mitigated it somewhat by having a greater variety of maps/locations and playable characters, especially EV. The reduction to both of those in VDB compounds the issue. I really wish they would come up with more mission goals than just "fight your way through waves of enemies and kill the boss." Those secret areas and medal pieces you mentioned do add some depth and are something that should be incorporated into future SK games, but in VDB they can't overcome the repetition on their own.
I'm not necessarily criticizing the story for being serious, I'm criticizing how it clashes with the art style and the overall yuri/ecchi theme. The three just don't seem to mesh very well. They took a game with SK-esque visuals and an ecchi/yuri theme and tried to tell a mostly serious story with it, and in my opinion it hasn't worked very well. The humor and what little fanservice there is really tends to come out of left field and leaves me scratching my head. Example: the scene where Rinka and Ranka are trying to get information from the various shopkeepers on the island, the mood is serious. Then suddenly we get an illustration of Rinka randomly being groped by a robot.
Regardless of what the correct term is for what happened to the characters, or what reasons they had for doing what they did, it doesn't change how two of my 3 favorite characters (design-wise) are now assholes, one so much so that I can't even stand looking at her face. If I want to play as a character with a good personality I'm left with either Rinka and Ranka (don't care for their designs or personalities), Momo (the last character I completely like who isn't an asshole), Tsukikage (ok design but boring character), or Manpukumaru (ugly design and edging toward being a jerk). So the only characters left that I actually want to play are Momo and Viola, and I only like Viola for her looks and her fighting style. So only one character out of 7 that I really care about. And yes that may be "on me" so to speak, but nonetheless it puts a damper on my experience with the game. One of the key factors of good writing is getting the reader to care about the characters, and the game has failed to do that for me with one exception.
I'm not saying VDB is a bad game, it's definitely not bad. It's just mediocre at best and subpar at worst IMO. I was expecting to enjoy it as much as I enjoyed SV, EV, and BA, but I was disappointed with how it turned out.
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Post by tzitzimine on May 4, 2017 0:18:18 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the game is a disappointment, but it is lackluster at best. I had fun with my run of VDB, even I found some things that frustrated me at times. Like how it seems the game tends to favor one character over the other at seemingly random points. In particular at the end of the Chaos route, after fighting Rinka as Ranka, we're forced to play as Ranka again for the final fight against Gundari. The game made it seem like we'd be playing as Rinka for that final fight, but instead we're railroaded into playing as Ranka for the final boss. This makes no amount of sense, because Rinka is pretty much the game's main protagonist, and she's the one who wants to leave the island the most, so why are we not allowed to play as her for the final round of the Chaos route? Simple, by Rinka wasn't at her 100% after her fight with Ranka and unlike her sister. Gundari wouldn't back off simply by talking and even defeating Gundari in combat isn't enough, Echigoya has to step in so Gundari admits defeat. Ranka isn't lashing out on Rinka nor her issues with her parents are the reasons she decides to fight Rinka. Yes, Ranka's disappointment over what she perceived as a betrayal from their parents is what stirs the conflict in the first place but as the events unfold is clear she's losing it due the fear of losing Rinka at Gundari's hands. Since Rinka won't listen to reasons, she opts for fighting as her last resort. You're also missing the development the Order route brings. While Mana's actions are reprobable, she never did anything truly bad to the other girls and in fact, she acted as the program expected she would. The explanation about the virus making them more aggressive than usual actually comes off more like Momo justifying her earlier attitude to Mana than justifying Mana's actions. Plus, Rinka's entire deal is preaching understanding and forgiveness so is perfectly understandable for everyone to forgive Mana. And again, you're missing the bit of development present on the Order Route to round up the characterizations. Budget and time limitations most likely. Just a matter of reflexes. By the time you've maxed every character you won't be missing hearts during the mini game. Not that you need to play the game again anyways. You can input a code to access Lovey Dovey mode on any maxed character without playing the mini game. If you maxed Rinka's Extar level you don't need to grind Ranka to beat Gundari. Having access to the four drive levels plus the three health potions gives you seven full recoveries, more than enough to defeat Gundari. Also Ranka has a much better air game than Rinka, so is easier for her to target Gundari's cores. If you want to make things even easier, destroy the cores on Gundari's legs first and then focus on the one in her tail. That will take all of her cores and her health, without giving her the chance to summon her helper. If she does summon it though, keep a reasonable distance since she will use her vortex attack and that will kill you. @ tzitzimine (not quoting directly to avoid cluttering the thread with omnislashing): Yes, what I posted is biased. It's my personal opinion of the game so far, I never intended it to be taken as a critical review. Sorry if it comes across as abrasive, I've had it stewing in my head for months and only now found an outlet for it. The repetitiveness I mentioned is indeed related to the genre and is also a factor in SV and EV, though to a lesser degree. Those two games mitigated it somewhat by having a greater variety of maps/locations and playable characters, especially EV. The reduction to both of those in VDB compounds the issue. I really wish they would come up with more mission goals than just "fight your way through waves of enemies and kill the boss." Those secret areas and medal pieces you mentioned do add some depth and are something that should be incorporated into future SK games, but in VDB they can't overcome the repetition on their own. Holding Bhikkhuni to the same standards as EV is ridiculous. Bhikkhuni is the first game on the series, EV is the fifth so obviously it will have more content (although a lot of it is reused from SV). Although this larger amount of content also makes it more repetitive since there's no variety whatsoever on its missions. And for the record, Bhikkhuni actually has more areas available (12) than SV (9) You do realize one of the defining characteristics of humor is precisely to come out the left field to surprise the audience, right? The series being yuri actually is one of the reasons for the plot to be more serious. Yuri as genre is known for leaning heavily towards drama. You can't play the "I want to play with appealing characters" argument when in the same paragraph you admit about not caring about any reasons the story gives for the characters have to act like thatAnd yes, good writing makes the audience care for its characters but if the audience isn't willing to let go any preconceived notions about the product, no amount of good writing will make them change their opinion. That is the problem, you were expecting a carbon copy of SK instead of treating it like its own thing.
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Post by HomurasBra on May 4, 2017 0:40:47 GMT -5
Looks like neither of us is going to convince the other. Have fun with the game, glad you enjoy it.
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Post by Nobu Narukami on May 4, 2017 4:48:14 GMT -5
Ranka isn't lashing out on Rinka nor her issues with her parents are the reasons she decides to fight Rinka. Yes, Ranka's disappointment over what she perceived as a betrayal from their parents is what stirs the conflict in the first place but as the events unfold is clear she's losing it due the fear of losing Rinka at Gundari's hands. Since Rinka won't listen to reasons, she opts for fighting as her last resort. You're also missing the development the Order route brings. While Mana's actions are reprobable, she never did anything truly bad to the other girls and in fact, she acted as the program expected she would. The explanation about the virus making them more aggressive than usual actually comes off more like Momo justifying her earlier attitude to Mana than justifying Mana's actions. Plus, Rinka's entire deal is preaching understanding and forgiveness so is perfectly understandable for everyone to forgive Mana. And again, you're missing the bit of development present on the Order Route to round up the characterizations. I'm aware that I'm missing the development of things in the Order route, since I haven't played it. In fact, I just beat Gundari, and as of now, started the Order route. Now I'll see how things play differently.
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Post by Nobu Narukami on May 6, 2017 21:36:05 GMT -5
Just a matter of reflexes. By the time you've maxed every character you won't be missing hearts during the mini game. Not that you need to play the game again anyways. You can input a code to access Lovey Dovey mode on any maxed character without playing the mini game. I've been trying to go into instant Lovey Lovey mode using that code, but nothing's happening. I have at least two characters maxed out on the Oppai Rank, and I'm holding down square and inputting the code on the directional pad, so either I'm doing something wrong or it's not being as responsive as it should.
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Post by tzitzimine on May 6, 2017 23:55:47 GMT -5
Probably you're missing the timing of the inputs. It happened to me the first time I tried the code as well.
I tried again and could activate it with no issues.
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Post by Nobu Narukami on May 7, 2017 2:07:32 GMT -5
There's a timing? Why did they make it so complicated?
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