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Post by Dai-T on Aug 22, 2014 8:08:17 GMT -5
Pulled this from an amazon review i don't care how it reads you can understand what he is saying.
"It's not the game you want to fight or I'll wanted to do with this monster! ! ! ! ... That wanted to do is battle each other undress of cute characters with each other. The next work ... you are expecting something you understand what geeks are looking to this game."
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Post by allen on Aug 22, 2014 8:10:53 GMT -5
Okey, I just wanna to say that despite everything I'm glad that Takaki choose quality over quantity regarding characters on Deep Crimson. The complaints about few characters is dumb since a gameplay perspective, having 12 characters to level up, master is pretty overwhelming already for a brawler like this. And if you'll have characters that you will never use, why add them at all? Where this a fighting game then it would be a different story, but for brawlers having more that six characters is pretty rare. See Streets of Rage 2 (considered by many as one of the best games in the genre)it only had 4 playable characters, MK Shaolin Monks (another story-focused brawler) only had 2 playable characters and is still fondly remembered. I have to agree with h2foxo if the character count really was an important factor on SK2 low sales, then SK has one of the worst fan bases I've ever seen. Yeah it is true if there are too many characters the story is likely to get chaotic. And some characters get too much story while others lack sense of prescene. Like in Dynasty Warriors some characters just appear in one or two stages and then disappear completely lol
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Post by allen on Aug 22, 2014 8:18:10 GMT -5
I don't really agree when you say that Gessen girls and New Hebi Joushi have unfinished stories. From what i've read in SV, it's about the same problems experienced by Hanzou Gakuen girls or Homura Gurentai... Let's not forget the story is NOT deep to begin with. And when you say people prefer more characters over customization, isn't that plain normal? I like to choose sexy outfits for my girls, but when i find my favorite one, i'm not gonna change it everyday. I'm not buying these games to play dolls. What i want is lot of stages, interesting stories (like the characters stories in SV, even though completely funny), and a variety of characters. And again, SK2 doesn't have any of that. But well, i think the biggest problem is really when Takaki said SV is an alternate story. It's negating the Vita players who contributed a lot on the success of the serie... Players are not stupid anymore. SK2 with all SV characters=instant hit. I said it again.(even though i'm a Vita player) But maybe the 3DS didn't have enough power for that? My arugemnt is that once you've cleared the 4 routes in SV you'll find only the Hanzo and Homura Guren's story are what really happen and Homura Guren's is the true end to fight the Youmas in the ending. For Gessen and New Hebijo their stories are like what happen in a parallel world and something shouldn't be taken seriously, such as in New Hebijo story they kill other girls and burn their schools lol When they appear as antagonist in Hanzo and Homura Guren's route I feel they lack character development, as there are already so many characters involved in the story, except for the leader other characters appear in 1 or 2 stages and that's all. Most of the individual character story is in the Hyakka Ryouranki, though most of the stories in it are just for fun. Hope they will uncover more character stories and connections between characters in EV. Actually that is not important in my concern as long as the characters fit their personality and the plot makes sense, I only care about whether the Versus Modes are interesting.
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Post by bcmccmmnx on Aug 23, 2014 3:07:33 GMT -5
Maybe the should have added another 10. Honestly, although I could see why it might cause trouble, I would love to see them slowly expand the character set (though more honestly, I'd just like to see them use some of the characters they made for New Wave...). However this is just me. I'm kind of a large-cast junkie. I like large, interconnected universes, and with the amount of potential characters they have, they could do a lot of interesting things with this universe. On the other hand, given the large pool, and a lack of established story for so many of them (contrast with Dynasty Warriors, which is at least based on a historical era/old book about it), I could see this either leading to blander stories, or other lapses in quality in favor of quantity. I dunno. I'm okay with wherever they go, but I do hope they keep their past games and characters in mind when they make more games. I hate it when franchises just forget whole storylines.
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Post by Dai-T on Aug 23, 2014 4:49:31 GMT -5
Maybe the should have added another 10. Honestly, although I could see why it might cause trouble, I would love to see them slowly expand the character set (though more honestly, I'd just like to see them use some of the characters they made for New Wave...). However this is just me. I'm kind of a large-cast junkie. I like large, interconnected universes, and with the amount of potential characters they have, they could do a lot of interesting things with this universe. On the other hand, given the large pool, and a lack of established story for so many of them (contrast with Dynasty Warriors, which is at least based on a historical era/old book about it), I could see this either leading to blander stories, or other lapses in quality in favor of quantity. I dunno. I'm okay with wherever they go, but I do hope they keep their past games and characters in mind when they make more games. I hate it when franchises just forget whole storylines. They should have brought in at least 5 for the last game.
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Post by tzitzimine on Aug 23, 2014 12:15:21 GMT -5
I mantain that the cast is good enough as it is now. One could get burned out easily on Burst by doing every mission with every character (I should know, I spend more than 100 hours clearing them with each character on Frantic Mode and Yang/Flash mode. And that was just Hanzo side) something that roughly amounts to 630 mission in total.
Adding more characters comes with two issues: either there's no enough variety among movesets to justify such a large cast (let's remember this isn't a fighting game) or the level design quickly loses its charm thanks to clearing the missions again and again with all the characters.
Honestly the only thing keeping me going forward on Burst is that I really like the characters and even then, Characters like Rin or Daidouji are painfully under developed while others like Yagyu or Mirai need to get other facets of their characters fleshed out. Seeing around for Versus' impressions I see that Gessen and New Hebijo aren't that well developed compared to the original twelve.
Sure, you can keep adding characters but that will lead to a massive quality dive (Mortal Kombat fell into that pitfall and it needed a reboot to get out of it, and the massive cast on other fighters has the personality of a cardboard) and I doubt Takaki wants to compromise the quality of his product.
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Post by Dai-T on Aug 23, 2014 17:55:21 GMT -5
I mantain that the cast is good enough as it is now. One could get burned out easily on Burst by doing every mission with every character (I should know, I spend more than 100 hours clearing them with each character on Frantic Mode and Yang/Flash mode. And that was just Hanzo side) something that roughly amounts to 630 mission in total. Adding more characters comes with two issues: either there's no enough variety among movesets to justify such a large cast (let's remember this isn't a fighting game) or the level design quickly loses its charm thanks to clearing the missions again and again with all the characters. Honestly the only thing keeping me going forward on Burst is that I really like the characters and even then, Characters like Rin or Daidouji are painfully under developed while others like Yagyu or Mirai need to get other facets of their characters fleshed out. Seeing around for Versus' impressions I see that Gessen and New Hebijo aren't that well developed compared to the original twelve. Sure, you can keep adding characters but that will lead to a massive quality dive (Mortal Kombat fell into that pitfall and it needed a reboot to get out of it, and the massive cast on other fighters has the personality of a cardboard) and I doubt Takaki wants to compromise the quality of his product. But niow he haa no choice. He can go on amazon and read * we want more girls" like I said he was thinking like a game producer not an otaku and that is what they wanted. Just think in terms of if your fav anime game series next game was a FPS. What would you say?
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Post by tzitzimine on Aug 23, 2014 22:27:12 GMT -5
But niow he haa no choice. He can go on amazon and read * we want more girls" like I said he was thinking like a game producer not an otaku and that is what they wanted. Just think in terms of if your fav anime game series next game was a FPS. What would you say? I think you're selling him short, Takaki isn't a newcomer on the business and again, let's remember that the uproar only means that the dissident faction of the fanbase us the most vocal, this recent article on Gematsu: gematsu.com/2014/08/outside-senran-kagura-2-user-reviews-editionShows that Deep Crimson holds a pretty good rating, with the positive reviews outweighting the bad ones by a good margin. True, the highest review depicts the otaku mentality but since when that is new for this series? Burst was crushed by the mainline press too. The numbers while low aren't bad all things considered and show that Senran Kagura has a solid base on the 3DS, something commendable when the system has the monsters that Youkai Watch, Monster Hunter and Pokemon are.
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Post by Dai-T on Aug 23, 2014 22:52:52 GMT -5
But niow he haa no choice. He can go on amazon and read * we want more girls" like I said he was thinking like a game producer not an otaku and that is what they wanted. Just think in terms of if your fav anime game series next game was a FPS. What would you say? I think you're selling him short, Takaki isn't a newcomer on the business and again, let's remember that the uproar only means that the dissident faction of the fanbase us the most vocal, this recent article on Gematsu: gematsu.com/2014/08/outside-senran-kagura-2-user-reviews-editionShows that Deep Crimson holds a pretty good rating, with the positive reviews outweighting the bad ones by a good margin. True, the highest review depicts the otaku mentality but since when that is new for this series? Burst was crushed by the mainline press too. The numbers while low aren't bad all things considered and show that Senran Kagura has a solid base on the 3DS, something commendable when the system has the monsters that Youkai Watch, Monster Hunter and Pokemon are. Of course he is not new he just wanted to advance the game and he is being pulled back despite the game having the most fanservice of any of the others. Problem is word of mouth is negative. People are far more likely to tell you what they hate about something then what they liked. And those in the middle get ignored .people only want to hear one of the extreme sides and it msy not always be thst easy. Im more mad that in all this talk about sales and bad game here and in japsn that people can't even play the game right as o see 0 mention of the tag system and how it is the main point of the gameplay. Even the videos posted are of bad players because the story mode is bad teacher. the game does not teach the system. I really don't want to do another guide there should be enough fans now to understand the battle system.
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Post by tzitzimine on Aug 24, 2014 0:23:35 GMT -5
Of course he is not new he just wanted to advance the game and he is being pulled back despite the game having the most fanservice of any of the others. Problem is word of mouth is negative. People are far more likely to tell you what they hate about something then what they liked. And those in the middle get ignored .people only want to hear one of the extreme sides and it msy not always be thst easy. Im more mad that in all this talk about sales and bad game here and in japsn that people can't even play the game right as o see 0 mention of the tag system and how it is the main point of the gameplay. Even the videos posted are of bad players because the story mode is bad teacher. the game does not teach the system. I really don't want to do another guide there should be enough fans now to understand the battle system. With that kind of attitude, no wonder the most prevalent opinions are negative. I'd say don't pay them attention and talk about what you like about the game, put some reviews or I don't know, just put the word about what you like. Someone will paid attention to it. I talk about Senran any time I can and I even made a serious thread about it on one of the most elitist and closed minded forums I've seen and while I was ridiculized to hell and back for the first two weeks I managed to convince quite a few poster to get Burst. My point is, (again) talk about what you like from the game and let them talk. And I wouldn't be too worried about Takaki caving to the (misguided) critics, he's way better than that and a very smart and shwred businessman.
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Post by tzitzimine on Aug 25, 2014 23:15:02 GMT -5
Just to show that there's people who really enjoyed Deep Crimson,this come from a guy on 4chan "So after these brutal ass hotsprings fights, I think this whole scenario is made to teach the player how to really play Senran 2, and after getting gud, you truly see that they improved the gameplay. Playing the Demon's Nest is fun as fuck. You have to learn the ins and outs of whatever character you use. You can't just mash, you gotta fight smart." He was also kind enough to offer translations of said hotspring scenes pastebin.com/t7JyGWmq
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Post by Dai-T on Aug 25, 2014 23:57:37 GMT -5
Just to show that there's people who really enjoyed Deep Crimson,this come from a guy on 4chan "So after these brutal ass hotsprings fights, I think this whole scenario is made to teach the player how to really play Senran 2, and after getting gud, you truly see that they improved the gameplay. Playing the Demon's Nest is fun as fuck. You have to learn the ins and outs of whatever character you use. You can't just mash, you gotta fight smart." He was also kind enough to offer translations of said hotspring scenes pastebin.com/t7JyGWmqthe game does not teach you nothing sorry. I have over 100 hours in the game now and anything you learn you learned on your own by getting gud as they say, there is nothing teaching tags, tag combos, tag cancel, tag vortex., tag reflect, using tag to reduce damage taken, nothing. much like burst this is design like a fighting game so they will not explain what can be done and most are lazy and want to mash buttons so you get a bad reaction from people that did not put in any time to understand why they are losing. it's even worst here because you have equip items that do the work for you so what are you really learning. you don't start to learn the game until you play though hard mode with no stones.
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Post by tzitzimine on Aug 26, 2014 1:08:29 GMT -5
the game does not teach you nothing sorry. I have over 100 hours in the game now and anything you learn you learned on your own by getting gud as they say, there is nothing teaching tags, tag combos, tag cancel, tag vortex., tag reflect, using tag to reduce damage taken, nothing. much like burst this is design like a fighting game so they will not explain what can be done and most are lazy and want to mash buttons so you get a bad reaction from people that did not put in any time to understand why they are losing. it's even worst here because you have equip items that do the work for you so what are you really learning. you don't start to learn the game until you play though hard mode with no stones. Every game I've played is like that though, you learn things on the fly, experimenting, taking risks and not by the system spoon feeding you (I actually hate to be guided at all times) so that's not Tamsoft fault, is the player's. Hell, that was how I learned to play on Burst. By going through the missions with different setups, learning levels layouts, enemy spawn points and characteristics of each mode and character.
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Post by Dai-T on Aug 26, 2014 1:39:38 GMT -5
the game does not teach you nothing sorry. I have over 100 hours in the game now and anything you learn you learned on your own by getting gud as they say, there is nothing teaching tags, tag combos, tag cancel, tag vortex., tag reflect, using tag to reduce damage taken, nothing. much like burst this is design like a fighting game so they will not explain what can be done and most are lazy and want to mash buttons so you get a bad reaction from people that did not put in any time to understand why they are losing. it's even worst here because you have equip items that do the work for you so what are you really learning. you don't start to learn the game until you play though hard mode with no stones. Every game I've played is like that though, you learn things on the fly, experimenting, taking risks and not by the system spoon feeding you (I actually hate to be guided at all times) so that's not Tamsoft fault, is the player's. Hell, that was how I learned to play on Burst. By going through the missions with different setups, learning levels layouts, enemy spawn points and characteristics of each mode and character. . these are not the players that do that so yes they need some help at least at thr start. but the reason no one is learning is because the game requires a second play through. example say I like ikaruga now she Is used on mission 2 singles but she does not show up again for some time and by then she has a partner. all this time I went though stages not using her. after you beat the game noe I can learn ikaruga and any character. the story does not give you time to take in the information of tag system and non tag system as well as characters changes the first time you play I think this is where most gamplay anger is from ( camera aside) tag games are not easy for many so throwing otaku in to this game with difficult enemies is kinda funny.
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Post by tzitzimine on Aug 26, 2014 2:17:51 GMT -5
these are not the players that do that so yes they need some help at least at thr start. but the reason no one is learning is because the game requires a second play through. example say I like ikaruga now she Is used on mission 2 singles but she does not show up again for some time and by then she has a partner. all this time I went though stages not using her. after you beat the game noe I can learn ikaruga and any character. the story does not give you time to take in the information of tag system and non tag system as well as characters changes the first time you play I think this is where most gamplay anger is from ( camera aside) tag games are not easy for many so throwing otaku in to this game with difficult enemies is kinda funny. I'll be frank with you, at this point I don't understand what is your point. I don't know if you liked the game or not, if you're saying that the game should guide the player through every single mechanism or what. I for one, I'm saying that while Deep Crimson isn't perfect (but what game it is?) in the end everything falls on the player shoulders. For one, I don't know a single game that spoon feed you every single aspect of its system. Second, You can repeat missions with every character as many times as you want and you have the Demon's Nest to polish your skills and grind levels available at any time. So there are options for the player to master the system Third, having the need of more than one playthrough is fantastic. The best games ever are those that can motivate you to stick around for a long time.
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