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Post by Dai-T on Oct 19, 2012 11:37:02 GMT -5
There are many problems going on today to keep Japanese games from taking over the market again. The main one is on the West (obviously), but a it only survives because Japan itself allows it to continue, and grow bigger, I'll explain: For this generation of gamers, Graphics=Quality. Ask any kid or teen today what would they like to play: The bad and generic FPS with pretty graphs that dominates the market, or the RPG that focus on history and gameplay and doesn't care too much about graphics. You all know what the answer would be. And let's take a look at Japan for a moment: an enormous wave of Moe anime and manga flooded the market, and since games and anime appeal more or less for the same audience, the games end up going that same way "moeing" their games. Since there is an obvious incompatibility between Moe aesthetics and realistic graphics, this just makes the games LESS appealing to the western audience, and this gave birth to a vicious cycle that companies can't break free: Their space in the west got small, which made them less inclined to take risks and make something new, so they just limit themselves to make niche games because there will always be some Otaku basement-dweller to buy them. Also linked to this problem, and what is most infuriating, is that because of the "moeization", some guys that are messed up in the head start thinking Japanese games are not "mature" enough for them: "WHAT? you are playing a Japanese game that involves strategy and you actually have to THINK? This is a kiddie game, I'm gonna play my mindless button-mashing shooter, it will make me appear more cool" I just hope the whole industry crashes like it did in the 80's, so we can finally see something new arising from the ashes and maybe start a new prosperous era for us all. That was a great post and touched on the topic I brought up about moe games in japan and those are just japanese version of violent games now. Many japanese dev's said there is no creativity any more and publishers won't let you do anything off the rails so to speak.
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Post by Twisthle on Oct 19, 2012 14:26:06 GMT -5
Funny thing about Twisthle's post...because this appeared in my sub box. Maybe the western market dying from lack of true innovation and over-saturation of shooters/action games/sequels doesn't seem too far off. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention what the guy in this video says. Not only putting too much importance on graphics generates the problems I said, it also makes the development too expensive, and thus companies don't want the game to fail, leading to the production of the same games over and over; it also gives small companies and starters with new ideas a hard time getting their games done.
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Post by Dai-T on Oct 20, 2012 17:49:30 GMT -5
Surprised by the link thought it would be a rant. But what he said speaks to both japan and the west so thats not really saying anything on why japan why japan will die in america unless you count the fact that all his inovative games are not japanese. Then ya it has plenty to do with the subject.
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Post by TwinTails on Oct 20, 2012 18:13:34 GMT -5
Surprised by the link thought it would be a rant. But what he said speaks to both japan and the west so that's not really saying anything on why japan will die in america unless you count the fact that all his innovative games are not japanese. Then ya it has plenty to do with the subject. Well this topic touches on how lack of innovative IPs from both japan and the west will kill the western market, too. Long story short, if western developers continue to focus on graphics and drive up development cost instead of thinking of new ideas while Japanese developers focus on gameplay but their games continue not to head statewide, we could see another crash. I hope that we can see a change with this in the next gaming generation, a new generation means a clean slate. And like what you said, Nintendo put a region lock on their system to encourage publishers to localize games.
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Post by Dai-T on Oct 20, 2012 18:23:04 GMT -5
Surprised by the link thought it would be a rant. But what he said speaks to both japan and the west so that's not really saying anything on why japan will die in america unless you count the fact that all his innovative games are not japanese. Then ya it has plenty to do with the subject. Well this topic touches on how lack of innovative IPs from both japan and the west will kill the western market, too. Long story short, if western developers continue to focus on graphics and drive up development cost instead of thinking of new ideas while Japanese developers focus on gameplay but their games continue not to head statewide, we could see another crash. I hope that we can see a change with this in the next gaming generation, a new generation means a clean slate. And like what you said, Nintendo put a region lock on their system to encourage publishers to localize games. Ya but that plan back fired now you have a bunch of gamers left out in the cold because other publishers not doing there job. Sega maybe a crap game maker but at least they were good publishers and published alot of games that would have had no chance on all systems.
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Post by TwinTails on Oct 20, 2012 19:03:34 GMT -5
Well this topic touches on how lack of innovative IPs from both japan and the west will kill the western market, too. Long story short, if western developers continue to focus on graphics and drive up development cost instead of thinking of new ideas while Japanese developers focus on gameplay but their games continue not to head statewide, we could see another crash. I hope that we can see a change with this in the next gaming generation, a new generation means a clean slate. And like what you said, Nintendo put a region lock on their system to encourage publishers to localize games. Ya but that plan back fired now you have a bunch of gamers left out in the cold because other publishers not doing there job. Sega maybe a crap game maker but at least they were good publishers and published alot of games that would have had no chance on all systems. That might be because the publishers dedicated to that are very small and one bad selling game could kill them off, the bigger publishers need to see a profit in localizing games than focusing on graphics (Ubisoft and NMH 1 & 2). Then again, the 3DS is still new and has games that haven't come out for it yet (Paper Mario, CoP, Animal Crossing). Other consoles are seeing the same problem but are still flooded with shooters/action games/sequels that people still buy up because they're "hardcore".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 19:03:57 GMT -5
I don't think Japanese gaming will ever die in the USA. I REALLY wish Western Gaming would die here in the USA. Western games are so uninteresting and unappealing they need to go. I want Japan to be the main dominance in the gaming industry again. This is one of the reasons why I don't like this Gen of gaming at all. But if Japan cannot reclaim their throne, then I want another video game crash to happen and I imagine it'll happen sooner than we all think
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Post by TwinTails on Oct 20, 2012 19:13:44 GMT -5
I don't think Japanese gaming will ever die in the USA. I REALLY wish Western Gaming would die here in the USA. Western games are so uninteresting and unappealing they need to go. I want Japan to be the main dominance in the gaming industry again. This is one of the reasons why I don't like this Gen of gaming at all. But if Japan cannot reclaim their throne, then I want another video game crash to happen and I imagine it'll happen sooner than we all think True, Japanese gaming might die in America because Western games are so overrated. The reason publishers seem to be afraid is because of fear that their games might get overlooked or looked at as crap. If we can eliminate shooters and rehashes, then that might give them a chance again. Look at what happened to RE, capcom said survival horror isn't profitable anymore, so they let a good franchise go to the dogs. Hopefully the Western part of the market dies, because the whole thing going means Japanese gaming will die anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2012 19:18:01 GMT -5
I don't think Japanese gaming will ever die in the USA. I REALLY wish Western Gaming would die here in the USA. Western games are so uninteresting and unappealing they need to go. I want Japan to be the main dominance in the gaming industry again. This is one of the reasons why I don't like this Gen of gaming at all. But if Japan cannot reclaim their throne, then I want another video game crash to happen and I imagine it'll happen sooner than we all think True, Japanese gaming might die in America because Western games are so overrated. The reason publishers seem to be afraid is because of fear that their games might get overlooked or looked at as crap. If we can eliminate shooters and rehashes, then that might give them a chance again. Look at what happened to RE, capcom said survival horror isn't profitable anymore, so they let a good franchise go to the dogs. Hopefully the Western part of the market dies, because the whole thing going means Japanese gaming will die anyway. I couldn't agree with you more on that one. I mean look what happened to Rareware the great company that made Conker,Donkey Kong Country and my favorite Banjo Kazooie. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO BANJO KAZOOIE!!!! Hell Japan LOVES Banjo Kazooie and Tooie on the N64 and then Microsoft fucked it up and now it's no longer Banjo Kazooie(Rareware is a European company and they make darn great games that even Japanese consu,ers approved) Sigh Microsoft is part of the reason why things went south for the gaming industry.
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Post by Dai-T on Oct 20, 2012 19:31:12 GMT -5
I for one don't share you guys view on this and think that we need both. I like japanese games and I like american games. I have no love for one side over the other only to good games. I play alot of competitive games so I under stand the COD and or sports side and why they are so popular and its from this factor more so then people think. As well as the social aspect. I also think the big budget thing is there for a reason to draw people in and more so then every when simple games can be had on your phone the console are in a corner where they have to validate there exsistance as a game device by providing an over all better and bigger experiance then any where else so on that sight I get the go big or go home view on things. They had to use this to kill off the arcades now they are in an area were they can be killed off and thats one of the cards needed. I also like japanese games and comapnies like Nintendo even though im not a fan are needed to balance things and keep freash idea's coming into the industry so others can take those ideas and pushed then forword on more then a closed nintedo system. You can't have an industry with just one side there is no going back to this anymore. Read more: senran-international.boards.net/index.cgi?action=display&board=senrankaguraburst&thread=85&page=1#ixzz29tB3bdMm
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Post by TwinTails on Oct 20, 2012 19:33:55 GMT -5
True, Japanese gaming might die in America because Western games are so overrated. The reason publishers seem to be afraid is because of fear that their games might get overlooked or looked at as crap. If we can eliminate shooters and rehashes, then that might give them a chance again. Look at what happened to RE, capcom said survival horror isn't profitable anymore, so they let a good franchise go to the dogs. Hopefully the Western part of the market dies, because the whole thing going means Japanese gaming will die anyway. I couldn't agree with you more on that one. I mean look what happened to Rareware the great company that made Conker,Donkey Kong Country and my favorite Banjo Kazooie. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO BANJO KAZOOIE!!!! Hell Japan LOVES Banjo Kazooie and Tooie on the N64 and then Microsoft fucked it up and now it's no longer Banjo Kazooie(Rareware is a European company and they make darn great games that even Japanese consumers approved) Sigh Microsoft is part of the reason why things went south for the gaming industry. They turned Banjo Kazooie into an action game?
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Post by Dai-T on Oct 20, 2012 19:36:14 GMT -5
True, Japanese gaming might die in America because Western games are so overrated. The reason publishers seem to be afraid is because of fear that their games might get overlooked or looked at as crap. If we can eliminate shooters and rehashes, then that might give them a chance again. Look at what happened to RE, capcom said survival horror isn't profitable anymore, so they let a good franchise go to the dogs. Hopefully the Western part of the market dies, because the whole thing going means Japanese gaming will die anyway. I couldn't agree with you more on that one. I mean look what happened to Rareware the great company that made Conker,Donkey Kong Country and my favorite Banjo Kazooie. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO BANJO KAZOOIE!!!! Hell Japan LOVES Banjo Kazooie and Tooie on the N64 and then Microsoft fucked it up and now it's no longer Banjo Kazooie(Rareware is a European company and they make darn great games that even Japanese consu,ers approved) Sigh Microsoft is part of the reason why things went south for the gaming industry. Please don't say this Fact all good game makers at rare left before M$ got them thats why Nintendo sold them M$ had nothing to do with them they gave them money for there first games and free promo just like they did for itagaki how come his games sold and they were crap it has nothing to do with M$ and everything to do with Rare. Thats a developer I hate because they had everything and was givin way too many chances and still messed up.
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Post by TwinTails on Oct 20, 2012 19:45:51 GMT -5
I for one don't share you guys view on this and think that we need both. I like japanese games and I like american games. I have no love for one side over the other only to good games. I play alot of competitive games so I under stand the COD and or sports side and why they are so popular and its from this factor more so then people think. As well as the social aspect. I also think the big budget thing is there for a reason to draw people in and more so then every when simple games can be had on your phone the console are in a corner where they have to validate there exsistance as a game device by providing an over all better and bigger experience then any where else so on that sight I get the go big or go home view on things. They had to use this to kill off the arcades now they are in an area were they can be killed off and that's one of the cards needed. I also like japanese games and companies like Nintendo even though im not a fan are needed to balance things and keep fresh idea's coming into the industry so others can take those ideas and pushed then forward on more then a closed nintedo system. You can't have an industry with just one side there is no going back to this anymore. Read more: senran-international.boards.net/index.cgi?action=display&board=senrankaguraburst&thread=85&page=1#ixzz29tB3bdMmFocusing on graphics alone is going to drive up development cost and kill the western gaming industry anyway. Bigger budgets just mean greater risk if the game doesn't sell well; Gamers are effected because the games will be alot more expensive, especially if the economy sucks tits.
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Post by Dai-T on Oct 20, 2012 19:50:17 GMT -5
Same can be said about japan and moe or licenced games like everything is a licinsed game thats why you will never see any of them. so they are both at fault in this case thats why I don't get the west is bad argument when people in the west can't play japanese games becauuse all they use are japanes licensed stuff and make a game around it.
They both need to take a step back and look at what they are doing.
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Post by JackAtlas on Oct 20, 2012 20:40:41 GMT -5
I couldn't agree with you more on that one. I mean look what happened to Rareware the great company that made Conker,Donkey Kong Country and my favorite Banjo Kazooie. LOOK WHAT HAPPENED TO BANJO KAZOOIE!!!! Hell Japan LOVES Banjo Kazooie and Tooie on the N64 and then Microsoft fucked it up and now it's no longer Banjo Kazooie(Rareware is a European company and they make darn great games that even Japanese consu,ers approved) Sigh Microsoft is part of the reason why things went south for the gaming industry. Please don't say this Fact all good game makers at rare left before M$ got them thats why Nintendo sold them M$ had nothing to do with them they gave them money for there first games and free promo just like they did for itagaki how come his games sold and they were crap it has nothing to do with M$ and everything to do with Rare. Thats a developer I hate because they had everything and was givin way too many chances and still messed up. This is not true. The good Rare developers left after getting fed up with Microsoft's stupidity. A lot of ex Rare employees are now saying if Nintendo bought back Rare every single person would flock back to the real Rare. The people your talking about are the original owners that sold their stake to Microsoft. I noticed someone bring up Resident Evil's series direction while reading through the new posts. How would people feel if a game like MegaMan X became an action game? It still would have everything that made the others good, just more added to the gameplay to make it different from the previous games. Whenever I hear people talk about the MegaMan franchise's sequels sometimes I'll hear people complain about the formula and originality. So I would like for you guys to chime in.
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