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Post by Poog on Jun 8, 2015 18:48:40 GMT -5
I think the biggest flaw with Subspace was it never explained anything or just left me asking too many questions. Who are the Subspace Emmisary, why are they attacking these established characters and for what reason? Now if the cutsey cutscenes did that I wouldn't complain but they didn't. The thing to establish is who the villains are. You aren't introduced to Tabuu until right at the end meaning you have zero investment in his character or just don't care. It's like how Satan appears right at the end of Lords of Shadow and I couldn't care cus I was invested in fighting the 3 Lords of Shadow to take onboard the "real villain" I hate it when things do that, you have the villain established only to find it's just a red herring (Looking at you Iron Man 3 and Dark Knight Rises) and you got 5 minutes to establish the "real villain" when by that point, you're 10+ hours into the story mode to care. The opening cutscene could have been how Wind Waker established itself. A simple tapestry showing the origins of Master Hand and Tabuu, how Tabuu wanted more power and seduced Wario, Ridley, Bowser, and Ganondorf to do his evil bidding. Then cut to the fight between Mario and Kirby. Not answering the questions left SE a broken mess. Also it could've used a better ending. It just stops when Tabuu is destroyed. I was hoping for some closure on the established arcs. Lucas feels he's become a stronger and more confident person from his adventure. Or how Donkey Kong settles things with Bowser for turning him into a trophy (cus we saw this with him and Ganondorf) maybe have Pit praised for his aid and have Snake and Sonic say their goodbyes before returning to their worlds. Nope, just close on trophy shots. Also yes I meant by the game in general in it's balance. That happens in a lot of things. Why do the bosses in LoZ attack Link? We have no idea and not all of them are there by Ganon or whoever's order, its just a thing that happens. The SSE dudes are there to be the bad guys, nothing more. The characters interact with each other and dont communicate much beyond that because its not meant to be the next Last of Us. Its trying to just be a video game, its fun. There's no writing issues because its just being a video game. It doesnt need to be some long thought out, Hollywood epic. Tabuu is legit just there to be a cool boss, and again, thats not "bad writing." Its not like there was some deep lore you've been following that had no mention of him. The whole SSE is just fanservice and stops right there. There doesn't need to be any closure, because no deep relationships were formed and the arcs weren't deep enough to really deserve any kind of closure. Unless the concept of DK potentially not getting his bananas back is keeping people up at night. A lot of these characters cannot really communicate, and tons of dialogue would betray the nature of the characters. The writing was super duper simple. Good guys have bad guys, they fight bad guys, secret boss shows up woohoo. I'll repeat once more. Thats not bad writing. That is a video game being a video game, and fanservice, instead of whatever Hollywood-esque games people are drooling over atm. As for balance, meh. The game was balanced enough for the core audience, its not a problem.
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Post by Sinister-Oni on Jun 8, 2015 19:24:19 GMT -5
I think the biggest flaw with Subspace was it never explained anything or just left me asking too many questions. Who are the Subspace Emmisary, why are they attacking these established characters and for what reason? Now if the cutsey cutscenes did that I wouldn't complain but they didn't. The thing to establish is who the villains are. You aren't introduced to Tabuu until right at the end meaning you have zero investment in his character or just don't care. It's like how Satan appears right at the end of Lords of Shadow and I couldn't care cus I was invested in fighting the 3 Lords of Shadow to take onboard the "real villain" I hate it when things do that, you have the villain established only to find it's just a red herring (Looking at you Iron Man 3 and Dark Knight Rises) and you got 5 minutes to establish the "real villain" when by that point, you're 10+ hours into the story mode to care. The opening cutscene could have been how Wind Waker established itself. A simple tapestry showing the origins of Master Hand and Tabuu, how Tabuu wanted more power and seduced Wario, Ridley, Bowser, and Ganondorf to do his evil bidding. Then cut to the fight between Mario and Kirby. Not answering the questions left SE a broken mess. Also it could've used a better ending. It just stops when Tabuu is destroyed. I was hoping for some closure on the established arcs. Lucas feels he's become a stronger and more confident person from his adventure. Or how Donkey Kong settles things with Bowser for turning him into a trophy (cus we saw this with him and Ganondorf) maybe have Pit praised for his aid and have Snake and Sonic say their goodbyes before returning to their worlds. Nope, just close on trophy shots. Also yes I meant by the game in general in it's balance. That happens in a lot of things. Why do the bosses in LoZ attack Link? We have no idea and not all of them are there by Ganon or whoever's order, its just a thing that happens. The SSE dudes are there to be the bad guys, nothing more. The characters interact with each other and dont communicate much beyond that because its not meant to be the next Last of Us. Its trying to just be a video game, its fun. There's no writing issues because its just being a video game. It doesnt need to be some long thought out, Hollywood epic. Tabuu is legit just there to be a cool boss, and again, thats not "bad writing." Its not like there was some deep lore you've been following that had no mention of him. The whole SSE is just fanservice and stops right there. There doesn't need to be any closure, because no deep relationships were formed and the arcs weren't deep enough to really deserve any kind of closure. Unless the concept of DK potentially not getting his bananas back is keeping people up at night. A lot of these characters cannot really communicate, and tons of dialogue would betray the nature of the characters. The writing was super duper simple. Good guys have bad guys, they fight bad guys, secret boss shows up woohoo. I'll repeat once more. Thats not bad writing. That is a video game being a video game, and fanservice, instead of whatever Hollywood-esque games people are drooling over atm. As for balance, meh. The game was balanced enough for the core audience, its not a problem. Yes the concept of DK potentially not getting his bananas back is kept me up at night.
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Post by Poog on Jun 8, 2015 19:39:49 GMT -5
Yes the concept of DK potentially not getting his bananas back is kept me up at night. Okay to be fair thats a genuinely important issue.
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Post by Akira on Jun 8, 2015 21:23:50 GMT -5
I do expect nothing at this year, just I will sit and if something can happen.
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Post by Poog on Jun 8, 2015 21:51:42 GMT -5
I do expect nothing at this year, just I will sit and if something can happen. Really? So far this year is looking quite good. A lot of the past few years didn't have anything so special, but this one seems to have a little bit of something for everyone.
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Post by Sinister-Oni on Jun 9, 2015 11:34:26 GMT -5
SEGA just announced a new Sonic Boom game...
This is going to be the end of SEGA huh?
I can already sadly see Atlus' tombstone saying "R.I.P. Atlus, I was dragged down by the idiot that was providing me with the funds."
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Post by Seventh on Jun 9, 2015 12:53:38 GMT -5
SEGA just announced a new Sonic Boom game... This is going to be the end of SEGA huh? I can already sadly see Atlus' tombstone saying "R.I.P. Atlus, I was dragged down by the idiot that was providing me with the funds." Not really. Sonic Boom was always getting a sequel. The point of it is the cartoon, the game is essentially just more merchandise for it. If anything, the fact that Sonic Boom exists already was the end of it, because Sonic Boom only exists because Sega felt Sonic was no longer relevant enough to try a new game, so they wanted to expand their fanbase before going back to the main series.
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Post by Poog on Jun 9, 2015 16:43:56 GMT -5
Speaking of, when Jim Sterling questioned why in the world they'd make another, Sega said that Sonic is doing quite well, and offered him a giant Sonic Colors poster. Apparently he gave Sonic a scathing review when Colors came out, so to spite him they sent him a giant Sonic banner that is as long as the guy's backyard.
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Post by Seventh on Jun 9, 2015 17:55:58 GMT -5
Speaking of, when Jim Sterling questioned why in the world they'd make another, Sega said that Sonic is doing quite well, and offered him a giant Sonic Colors poster. Apparently he gave Sonic a scathing review when Colors came out, so to spite him they sent him a giant Sonic banner that is as long as the guy's backyard. Really? Considering their reasoning for Boom seemed to be that Sonic was losing relevance and they needed to make him recognizable to kids again, I'm not sure if that's "well," but I suppose whatever works. Either way, Sonic Team said they still want to make games and that's all that matters.
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Post by Poog on Jun 9, 2015 18:18:15 GMT -5
Sonic Team said they still want to make games
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Post by Seventh on Jun 9, 2015 18:23:07 GMT -5
Sonic Team said they still want to make games W-What? That's a good thing though! Generations was Sonic Team! People like that, right?
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Post by Poog on Jun 9, 2015 18:28:40 GMT -5
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Post by Seventh on Jun 9, 2015 18:35:19 GMT -5
I'll give you 2006, but I think even they would give you that. The others... we'd have to have some conversations about. Regardless, I think the most important thing to consider is that most of those are older, whereas Sonic Team's recent games, besides for Lost World, have been generally well received (or at the very least, in Unleashed's case, set the precedent for the things that were well received), I'm pretty sure?
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Post by Poog on Jun 9, 2015 19:00:08 GMT -5
I'll give you 2006, but I think even they would give you that. The others... we'd have to have some conversations about. Regardless, I think the most important thing to consider is that most of those are older, whereas Sonic Team's recent games, besides for Lost World, have been generally well received (or at the very least, in Unleashed's case, set the precedent for the things that were well received), I'm pretty sure? Black Knight and Secret Rings were riddled with issues and stupid ideas, as well as really unresponsive controls. You can't even blame the Wii itself, as games like LoZ:TP and Warioware worked just fine. Shadow the Hedgehog had the dumbest writing, awful plot, the whole thing is just a big mess that drags on way too long at times. Unleashed had glitchy nonsense, the Sonic courses were okay, the werehog courses were bad. Chip was super annoying. Zero Gravity wasn't terrible, but it was a bit barebones and had some control issues. Also where is our friggin' Chao Garden? Sonic Team refuses to listen for some reason. I'm pretty sure its by far the most requested returning feature by now.
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Post by Seventh on Jun 9, 2015 19:24:28 GMT -5
For me, while I don't like Secret Rings per se, I do think it was an experiment in something new and considering Sonic Team at the time... didn't always pull off experiments well (2006 says hi), I give it a little leniency for at least not being as terrible as that. Although, on the ideas front, I think it and Black Knight, which I actually liked quite a lot, were pretty cool. Spinoffs do do different things, and I'm a sucker for alternate universes and stuff like that, and Black Knight just... in general was a game I had a lot of fun with. A-Anyway, Shadow the Hedgehog's writing is definitely goofy, no arguments there, but the gameplay is solid and fun and in that respect, it being long is a point in its favor considering how many levels there are. And... looking at the writing strictly at how it starts and ends? Considering how at that point in time they were still big on keeping Sonic's side cast fleshed out and in use regularly (Sonic X was still on the air for crying out loud), they did basically rip the bandage off for all his drama so it was done with in future games and he could move on from it, and while pretty much everything in-between was pretty eh on the writing front, if you take the start, the end, and the knowledge that a bunch of crazy adventuring happened in-between, then that works, at least for me anyway. I think the biggest offender was the marketing, if anything - they made it out to be a lot darker and edgier than it actually was. And I mean, maybe it's just me, but Shadow's storyline was one of the few redeemable things about Bestiality the Hedgehog 2006, and I never thought I'd say that after the mess that was his game's storyline...s, but I think how that game left him and wrapped up his storyline (which is really on Heroes too for starting it out of nowhere and then doing nothing with it when they could have just as easily handwaved it or explained Eggman picked him up and cloned him or made robots out of him to explain those...like they did in Shadow anyway) had a lot to do with that. I don't remember control issues with Zero Gravity, but yeah, I do agree that it was barebones. I think that one actually was probably held back some by being on the Wii, mainly in the online area, though them working it in for PS2 probably didn't help. I was genuinely shocked it had no online to speak of when I played it. I did enjoy it, but yeah. Dunno about Chao Garden. ... As for Unleashed, I... can't actually remember any glitches (I did play the PS3 version, which I know was different from the PS2/Wii ones, so maybe that's it?), actually quite liked the Werehog courses, loved Chip and am heartbroken they haven't found a way to bring him back, thought it was probably one of the better Sonic games in terms of writing, and it's... kindofoneofmyfavoritegames...Sorry if that got a little long. But yeah, I'm used to not having these opinions shared, so, uh... Perhaps we should agree to disagree?
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