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Post by augen on Dec 16, 2015 12:22:28 GMT -5
I completely agree with you that open and honest communication is the best way here, so that there can be clarity regarding the demands of the customers here instead of 'statement non-buys' that never reach the company as that statement. For all cases in which there is no such thing (because the company might not communicate), I think it is good to realize that not buying never sends a message to the publisher other than a lack of interest. When the digital games sell well, the publisher might be willing to be more open to suggestions, wondering whether fans might prefer physical games. When an English Asia release gets exported (from their perspective of course) a lot, they might wonder if there is a way to get it to the West in some sort of low-profile manner. When it is censored... well, to be honest, I think most (niche) publishers realize now that censorship is not the way to go, as their fanbase can be so incredibly harsh on that. Now back to DOAX3... Can I justify this in any other way outside of fanservice..? Ugh, dilemmas... When XSeed brought SK to NA digital only there was a lot of consideration to buy it or not. Ultimately their openness and promise that strong sale mean future releases be physical won me over. TK has said next to nothing, and I have no idea how they'd be able to track where sales in Asia are eventually going. If they said "look, import this and we'll do a ultimate edition with more character down the line and release it in the west" then I'd support it. Right now, I'm not a massive fan of Xtreme spin offs, but I really like supporting Japanese and niche titles, so making these types of commitments is a struggle for me.
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Post by Akira on Dec 17, 2015 17:58:54 GMT -5
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Post by TheAtom on Dec 18, 2015 9:43:11 GMT -5
I completely agree with you that open and honest communication is the best way here, so that there can be clarity regarding the demands of the customers here instead of 'statement non-buys' that never reach the company as that statement. For all cases in which there is no such thing (because the company might not communicate), I think it is good to realize that not buying never sends a message to the publisher other than a lack of interest. When the digital games sell well, the publisher might be willing to be more open to suggestions, wondering whether fans might prefer physical games. When an English Asia release gets exported (from their perspective of course) a lot, they might wonder if there is a way to get it to the West in some sort of low-profile manner. When it is censored... well, to be honest, I think most (niche) publishers realize now that censorship is not the way to go, as their fanbase can be so incredibly harsh on that. Now back to DOAX3... Can I justify this in any other way outside of fanservice..? Ugh, dilemmas... When XSeed brought SK to NA digital only there was a lot of consideration to buy it or not. Ultimately their openness and promise that strong sale mean future releases be physical won me over. TK has said next to nothing, and I have no idea how they'd be able to track where sales in Asia are eventually going. If they said "look, import this and we'll do a ultimate edition with more character down the line and release it in the west" then I'd support it. Right now, I'm not a massive fan of Xtreme spin offs, but I really like supporting Japanese and niche titles, so making these types of commitments is a struggle for me. Those aren't figures they get? Ugh I know too little about business xD My bad. I get what you mean and clarity regarding the reasons for not bringing it over would help. If negative media attention IS the reason, then showing there is a market for it here isn't going to help (it wasn't the issue anyway). For me it's a no-buy though. With indeed no promise of (or even hint at) localization with good export sales there is little reason to buy it. May be better off supporting Criminal Girls 1 because #2 is gorgeous (anyone think Marvelous could jump on that?)
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Post by augen on Dec 18, 2015 11:50:09 GMT -5
Those aren't figures they get? Ugh I know too little about business xD My bad. I get what you mean and clarity regarding the reasons for not bringing it over would help. If negative media attention IS the reason, then showing there is a market for it here isn't going to help (it wasn't the issue anyway). For me it's a no-buy though. With indeed no promise of (or even hint at) localization with good export sales there is little reason to buy it. May be better off supporting Criminal Girls 1 because #2 is gorgeous (anyone think Marvelous could jump on that?) They can know that sites such as Play Asia bought a ton, but unless they work with them they'd have no idea where they are shipping them. On positive side I am supporting TK working with NISA to bring Atelier Escha & Logy Plus Limited Edition to the west as hopeful mean get similar treatment on future Atelier titles. Criminal Girls fell into that whole censorship conundrum of support versus endorsing. Still debating that one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2015 8:31:21 GMT -5
Those aren't figures they get? Ugh I know too little about business xD My bad. I get what you mean and clarity regarding the reasons for not bringing it over would help. If negative media attention IS the reason, then showing there is a market for it here isn't going to help (it wasn't the issue anyway). For me it's a no-buy though. With indeed no promise of (or even hint at) localization with good export sales there is little reason to buy it. May be better off supporting Criminal Girls 1 because #2 is gorgeous (anyone think Marvelous could jump on that?) They can know that sites such as Play Asia bought a ton, but unless they work with them they'd have no idea where they are shipping them. On positive side I am supporting TK working with NISA to bring Atelier Escha & Logy Plus Limited Edition to the west as hopeful mean get similar treatment on future Atelier titles. Criminal Girls fell into that whole censorship conundrum of support versus endorsing. Still debating that one. I'll add my piece that buying censored games is supporting it because you are giving money to a product that was altered which gives companies no incentive to stop instead they think that people are okay with it and will keep doing it while not buying it gives the message that you won't stand for censorship and if it means having a game bomb then so be it. Not to mention that most of the time these companies self censor without even consulting the rating boards first instead they assume it won't go through.
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Post by TheAtom on Dec 21, 2015 13:17:58 GMT -5
They can know that sites such as Play Asia bought a ton, but unless they work with them they'd have no idea where they are shipping them. On positive side I am supporting TK working with NISA to bring Atelier Escha & Logy Plus Limited Edition to the west as hopeful mean get similar treatment on future Atelier titles. Criminal Girls fell into that whole censorship conundrum of support versus endorsing. Still debating that one. not buying it gives the message that you won't stand for censorship and if it means having a game bomb then so be it. Not to mention that most of the time these companies self censor without even consulting the rating boards first instead they assume it won't go through. The self-censoring before they even sent it to the rating boards is a curious phenomenon indeed, and I would be very interested in hearing a company's, for example NISA's, actual reasoning for doing so (and not what they may put forward in a press release). There must be some rationale, right? These aren't mindless idiots we're talking about, as much as it may be easier to portray them as such. There was a reason for them to do that, regardless of whether it worked out well or not. Also, not buying it gives no message whatsoever. Neither of my brothers bought Criminal Girls. My girlfriend didn't buy it. None of the people I know personally bought it, actually. They aren't sending any message to NISA. So how would your voiceless no-buy be any different? We're talking sending a message here, and not 'doing something because of such and such'. If the company doesn't know why you're not getting it, they're not getting any message whatsoever. Now, if you'd communicate your reason for not getting it in a way they will certainly receive it, you may be giving off a message, sure, but you can complain whilst supporting the effort into bringing it over just as well. Especially regarding the niche games we're talking about, I find 'not buying as a statement' one of the worst things you can do. Marvelous, Idea Factory and NISA (the three main console localizers for ecchi games from what I know) seem to listen decently well to their public regardless of sales. Now, if we as the consumers communicate our wishes with them well (I know Xseed as well as IF have publicly said they would not censor any game anymore, meaning we'll either get it uncensored, or not at all), and not buying will, if anything, communicate a lack of interest. Imagine, nobody would actually communicate with the company, and just not buy thinking it'll send a message. The company has incredibly low sales figures, meaning the game, commercially was a flop. For the sake of the argument, let's simplify the matter and say there's two options: 1) They will interpret the low sales figures as a lack of interest in the product, 2) They will interpret the low sales figures as a 'backlash' for censoring parts of the game. How rational does 2) really seem? You're aware you're putting out a niche product; it didn't do well. How delusional must you seem to then derive from that that 'the audience absolutely loved what we were bringing over, but hated how we did it! The only way we can tell them we didn't like how something happened is with communication. Not-buying is not an example of communication. Buying the game however, gives you the chance to show the support for the company for taking the risk it takes everyday by publishing niche products rather than going for mass appeal, but is also not an example of communication. Only, say an email or a facebook message or a tweet, is an example of communication. That's what makes the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 5:23:34 GMT -5
Why would anyone buy a butchered product just so they can "earn" the right to express their opinion on the matter, whenever a game gets censored usually by NISA there is visible backlash that the company themselves tries to sweep it under the rug by putting out press releases essentially blaming the ESRB which while isn't perfect is never the cause of it because it was and always been an internal decision instead of actually them sending it in and seeing what the ESRB doesn't like and then on their own forums stopping people from talking about it in a negative manner.
I rather send those emails telling them how disappointed I am and as a customer will not be supporting a horrible practice.
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Post by TheAtom on Dec 23, 2015 9:43:08 GMT -5
Why would anyone buy a butchered product just so they can "earn" the right to express their opinion on the matter, whenever a game gets censored usually by NISA there is visible backlash that the company themselves tries to sweep it under the rug by putting out press releases essentially blaming the ESRB which while isn't perfect is never the cause of it because it was and always been an internal decision instead of actually them sending it in and seeing what the ESRB doesn't like and then on their own forums stopping people from talking about it in a negative manner. I rather send those emails telling them how disappointed I am and as a customer will not be supporting a horrible practice. I never said anything about earning the right. I said communication, so indeed, an email as you say, is the only way of communication. Not buying a 'butchered' product, then, still is not a 'statement' and doesn't send anyone a 'message', the email does. That's my point. I am not saying you should buy products you don't want, I am saying not buying them BECAUSE you want to send a message is silly, because you're not sending a message. I'm also not trying to defend NISA regarding this matter, a lot seemed to have gone wrong there, and I don't know most of it. Whether it is truly a 'butchered' product (or a horrible practice, for that matter, the editing of entertainment software perhaps isn't THAT bad either) is debatable as well, but I know how passionate people can get when it comes to censorship. Criminal Girls is still somewhere to be found on my 'to buy'-list though.
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Post by 2wheel on Dec 27, 2015 22:04:14 GMT -5
Bit late to the conversation, but if you're looking for a way to have game devs get the msg. Then I suggest looking into MillionGamersStrong petition on change.org.
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