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Post by omnimegami on Feb 13, 2017 18:38:53 GMT -5
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Post by Poog on Feb 13, 2017 23:11:56 GMT -5
The thing I wonder most is how the Awakening / Fates fans are gonna react to no shipping mechanics or self insert.
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Post by omnimegami on Feb 15, 2017 21:34:30 GMT -5
The thing I wonder most is how the Awakening / Fates fans are gonna react to no shipping mechanics or self insert. well it's said to alternate between both protagonists, maybe later on it might pull a Suikoden III and players can at least choose Alm or Celica as lead for the rest of the game. though yea, Fire Emblem Switch should not follow Echoes's example, and should be more like Fire Emblem Fates with player creation, marriage, kids and more of the Fates style of gameplay. though it could adopt some of Echoes 3D dungeon exploration, that is kinda cool. all in all, Echoes is still better than Fire Emblems that just glorify a guy while whatever female characters are just support characters. So it's almost the next best thing to player creation. though it's a shame they didn't go Star Ocean The Second Story style with it, both protagonists having their own version of the full campaign, and players could choose play as either protagonist the whole way through. I seen worse Fire Emblems. anyways, Echoes can be the exception also because its based on an outdated NES Fire Emblem. that doesn't mean new Fire Emblems would adopt its style. it is a scary thought it they push aside Fates style for Echoes format for new games, if Echoes happens to sell more. but I think they know Fates features and fundamentals are way more appealing and give players more freedom and incentives to play it. www.polygon.com/2016/2/24/11105150/fire-emblem-fates-launch-sales-recordthey must know self insert player created protagonist, female main character option, aesthetics customization, marriage and kids sells more than just catering to one demographic. even the developers must be aware Pokemon wouldnt be as popular as it is now if they didnt let the player at least choose their sex and at least to some degree customize their appearance. the first RPG, Dungeons & Dragons, always centered on prioritizing of encouraging players to create their own self the way they want to exist in the world. no matter the genre and game, it's an essential freedom and feature to have that has infinite value
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Post by Poog on Feb 16, 2017 5:02:26 GMT -5
The thing I wonder most is how the Awakening / Fates fans are gonna react to no shipping mechanics or self insert. well it's said to alternate between both protagonists, maybe later on it might pull a Suikoden III and players can at least choose Alm or Celica as lead for the rest of the game. though yea, Fire Emblem Switch should not follow Echoes's example, and should be more like Fire Emblem Fates with player creation, marriage, kids and more of the Fates style of gameplay. Fates was really dumbed down pandering to the power of friendship and I just really didnt like that. Conquest was okay to good till the endgame, Birthright's only good portion was the finale, and Revelations was just an absolute mess. Corrin was lame. I know it sells better, but eugh. Eirika? Micaiah?
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Post by omnimegami on Feb 16, 2017 14:39:56 GMT -5
ha? well I only played FEA and FEF so not sure if the others had something like that. from what I skimmed, the series previous games at a glance seemed like a routine of sword hero eventually defeating a dragon. so I thought they really didn't diversify things and provide true player creation and more open RP freedom until FE Awakening. I do recall a Fire Emblem with someone named Lyn, but not sure if she's like a Celica that just has segments of the campaign to herself. but yea I didn't know one or more Fire Emblem games had something similiar to Star Ocean The Second Story's style, which is the next best thing to player creation.
remember Fire Emblem didn't even become a thing until SSB introduced them, and even then, no game convinced most people to explore them until FE Awakening and then FE Fates. games pre FE are obsolete now that FE Fates raises the standards, and I would think the mainstream would agree.
typically the only critics of Fates are generally in the loud minority, like practically every fanbase of different franchises (except the Sonic fanbase, those criticisms are justified) Fire Emblem Fates is in much better shape and still ongoing unlike Shining Force and FF Tactics.
I dunno how the mainstream oversimplify the summary of Fire Emblem Fates to a power of friendship thing, when that sells Kingdom Hearts and other overrated series. Look at even popular anime like One Piece, Naruto and even Dragon Ball Super, which is at the top of the charts, Goku wouldnt even gotten SSGSS if it wasn't for friendship giving them the SS energy to unlock it.
Fire Emblem Fates has very mature themes, especially with its classic rules and stuff. it's not supposed to be a grim dark series like Drakengard. "Corrin" is better than "Robin". especially with no stereotypical Fire Emblem bluehairedudethatlooksrelatedtoMarth protagonist sharing the spotlight. no Chrom clone holding Corrin's hand, nor hogging the world map spotlight, is very refreshing. Also Corrin's upbringing and true lineage makes sense how the personality is excessively forgiving and stuff. traits of the mother.
well if people don't like having a Corrin type personality, the contrast and differences between Robin and Corrin, can assure people that the next Fire Emblem is going to have a different mindset as well. but anyways the created protagonists really are still open to player RP and their own take on what they are truly like inside. the games only express how the protagonist interacts and behaves in those events, but beyond that, it's open interpretation and role playing that allows the player to determine the complete persona, inner mind and ideologies of theirself as "Corrin".
Fire Emblem Awakening is my first FE, and FE Fates totally surpasses it (though I like the relationship scene afterwards in FEA, in FEF if I recall, there was no warm and funny scene with my husband afterwards, but hey the imagination can fill whatever relationship gaps the game doesn't show, so its really up to the player what happens inbetween and afterwards relationship wise and stuff) and yes FEA's final battle is more emotional (and better music) than the FEFates final battles, but still emotional.
All in all Fire Emblem Fates possesses the greatest things from the series, with greater refinements (I really like how weapons dont have limited uses). the series weapons system should be more "how do I use this weapon", instead of "when do I use this weapon before it runs out of uses". only a certain amount of uses is silly, even for a SRPG. Even FF Tactics doesn't do that. and lore wise, the characters typically only carry one weapon with them. they sure are used a lot in promotional cutscenes without fear of it breaking in a couple of uses. plus the durability system also made it almost feel like you were carrying multiple copies of the same weapon, lol.
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Post by Poog on Feb 16, 2017 20:04:35 GMT -5
remember Fire Emblem didn't even become a thing until SSB introduced them, and even then, no game convinced most people to explore them until FE Awakening and then FE Fates. games pre FE are obsolete now that FE Fates raises the standards, and I would think the mainstream would agree. The 7th Fire Emblem came out after Melee so this couldn't be more wrong. FE was niche because it didnt explore the more casualized power of friendship concept. FE Fates was actually pretty awful. Story was awful, especially in Revelations which is supposed to be the canon route. Most of the core FE fandom universally agree the past games were better with a more interesting story, now its just waifu bait and shipping. For example, lets compare Corrin and Ike. Go back and play a classic FE like Path of Radiance. Much better game. Because it fell into the new hotness trend. Because its a boring cop out. Thats basically Corrin's whole thing "Noooo I don't wanna fight youuuu lets be friendssss!" Please refer to the Ike - Corrin comparison again. Not really. Whats mature about it? The occasional minor death and whatnot? This is incredibly tame. FE4 killed off your whole party as part of the story. How can you self-insert into a character with pre-defined decisions, dialogue, and more? Doesnt work. Fates was a disaster. Most of both stories is just "nooo lets be friends." Conquest has such a dumb, disappointing ending. Birthright is just generic "stop the bad man." Revelations was even worse. When the girl is killed and betrayed, no real drama or sense of tension, hell when she gets resurrected for you to fight her, no one even comments on it. NO ONE. Even worse with both games not answering ANYTHING about Azura. You need to either read up on Revelations or buy a dlc just for the real ending of the game? Thats just lame. Its called being challenged.
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Post by omnimegami on Feb 18, 2017 10:12:11 GMT -5
ah, people too inconsiderate and desensitized can't see the beauty and excellence of FE Fates, that's why they are in the minority. but hating won't help understand.
oversimplifying it like "power of friendship" is really closed minded. maybe you read too much manga or anime, but it's really not as carebearish as critics make it seem, especially in the mode where characters can get killed off, they are still more mature games and stories than games that totally cover all the party members in plot armor.
FE Fates story is great, meaningful and emotional, and like Awakening even more so since players have more freedom in their identity and appearance, which entirely surpasses static premade character designs. sure even FE avatars have a preset personality for the most part, but there's still more personal customization and RP freedom than the dictatorship force fed protagonist character design.
also "husbando/waifu bait" labeling is very immature. What the ****, you think it should only cater to your tastes and the conservative fans that want no fun? no spouse? no kids? how sucky would that be not having those options, when its perfectly fitting for human nature. It's antifamily mentalities like that which make games less interesting to the point of not even worth playing because it's the usual shonen exclusive contrived dark masochistic bull**** that the desensitized minority want out of something that is instead so much better with features that Awakening and especially FE Fates set in place.
also Revelations route is not the canon route for those that prefer either Conquest or Birthright results, each game is its own reality. Revelations is its own reality as well, and even when a series follows a certain canon, those other realities still exist. Why you think they even bother to make multiple versions with their own indepth differences, it allows more free choice and exploring different reality paths and unique possibilities. Revelations is only canon if you play it and acknowledge that as the reality you choose to accept. just because someone looks at all the games as a whole, and think Revelations makes the other stories irrelevant, is not really looking at the higher possibilities. especialyl those that only play one of the other 2, you are gonna tell them their path is wrong and it doesn't happen? that's closed minded.
it's kind of like Shin Megami Tensei IV and Apocalypse, whether a new SMT game is linked to one or the other, both realities and timelines still exist in their own reality, even if one is glorified and labeled as canon, the other reality still exists. what's canon only means that one perspective, one reality timeline, is favored over others, that's all. that doesn't take away from the open ended possibilities the other realities can have.
and Ike sucks and their design is so stereotypical, especially those that prefer female protagonist they can create themselves how the player wants. Some actually don't mind Corrin's naive yet caring personality overall.
and why you think it fell into the new hotness trend? BECAUSE ITS WHAT PEOPLE WANT and provides things people value more than you can ever imagine nor appreciate.
and challenged? there's challenged and then there is stupid rules that overcomplicate combat and limit weapon usage. the community is divided on it, like Atelier fans are divided between time limit and no time limit, both sides may have valid views, but the mainstream that helped make Fire Emblem mainstream, deserve more games like Fire Emblem Fates. of course new protagonist is likely not going to have the "lets all be friends" attitude, so there's no concern, someone is going to complain either way.
and people can self insert into a player created character with predefine decisions , dialogue and some other things. the game doesn't word for word define entirely what type of person the player is. as Corrin. The player has more control than the typical rpg/srpg, right across the sex, appearance and class changing, name changing, right across the choice of characters to develop relationships further to get to know them better,become best friends, or even marry AND have kids with them. that stuff is not predetermined, its player chosen, and if they play in classic setting their strategy decisions matter even more to keep them alive if they bring their best friend, spouse, siblings or children into battle.
games like FE Awakening and FE Fates give more personal identity freedom than most games. Sure it's not as open identity like The Elder Scrolls games or Xenoblade X, which have silent protagonists and totally open RP possibilities, but it's no total dictatorship force fed single character design where all relationships are predetermined.
the game goes to the point of expressing how Corrin can express themselves outwardly, but there is still room for the player to determine what Corrin is really like inside. I mean just the fact players can even choose between the Conquest, Birthright or Revelations paths, HOW MANY GAMES allow that? Also, the game can't stop a cruel Corrin from manipulating a unit they don't like to go deep enough to get killed off and eliminated in a battle, since Corrin is basically the commander of the units, any unit that currently doesn't have story ties that keeps them alive, can be eliminated from the whole game. So you see, that's one example how players can RP and be a different type of Corrin than what story expresses on the outside, also Corrin can have their secret likes and dislikes about people, the game doesn't have to express that or have outward options for players to decide the Corrin they truly are inside. even though the games don't give all the social options one would like, creative RPers can still be whatever they want to be, with the predetermined events just being one side of them. So players do ahve more control and self insert flexibility than in most games in the industry overall.
in most games, they have a predetermined character automatically chooses a predetermined faction, a predetermined love interest, and a predetermined relationships and predetermined survival of characters. but these games are much more open and flexible than that.
players can self insert in FE Awakening "Robin" and FE Fates "Corrin" much more than any Zelda game and Metroid game, that's for sure. those other games have premade characters with predetermined identities, but Awakening and Fates allow a lot more personalized and customizable identity for more kinds of players.
yea the series is still not as open as we would like with self insert identity (they should have something more like Pokemon games and Persona 3 Portable have, combined with Fates level of customization),
but compared to Final Fantasy Tactics, Fire Emblems without these features, and other overly strict games, Awakening and Fates literally provide at least the minimum open RP freedoms than most games in the industry overall. heck its because of Awakening and Fates I even cared to own a 3DS (and Pokemon X was another incentive)
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Post by Poog on Feb 18, 2017 17:24:24 GMT -5
ah, people too inconsiderate and desensitized can't see the beauty and excellence of FE Fates, that's why they are in the minority. but hating won't help understand. Lol, it has solid gameplay but thats about it. Its primarily agreed to be a step down from Awakening and past entries especially. They barely even make you care about any of the characters. But yes, its far more power of friendship in comparison to past games. Play them and then you can tell me this game is that much more brutal and mature. I realize you have an intense hang up on create a character, but literally all you can decide for the player unit is how they look and a voice. Thats hardly anything to get all self-insert hype about. How is it immature? That's exactly what it is. And no, not just my tastes. Its actually a very common complaint from a lot of pre-Awakening fans. Lets not forget the petting game they had in the Japanese version. If that, Camilla, etc doesn't spell it out for you, I'm honestly not sure what will. Nor is Fire Emblem part of that silly rant you just spouted off, its more like an actual war in terms of plot. Fates feels very much like you're just out to make friends and not treating it like as much of a war as FE would typically do. For the same reason Pokemon does it. Money is nice. As for Revelations not being canon; Which route explained Azura? Or the forces behind Garon? Or Corrin? They all did those really in depth. We got so many answers from Conquest and Birthright about Azura, especially the parts where she repeatedly refuses to answer questions. Please tell me of all your experience playing Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. I mean, you've determined Ike sucks despite having not played any of his games. That makes a whole lotta sense. As for the female protag thing, honestly this just sounds like you're really hard up for create a character with female options than you are having a good MC. Awakening was popular. People just bandwagoned. A lot of people can also admit Fates was not that good. It added a level of depth to the gameplay because you had to think on another level instead of just throwing your dudes at everything with reckless abandon. Its not even available on harder difficulties, which is dumb. Speaking of which, for all your ranting about emotional connections and such, wouldn't being able to turn off perma-death allow you to get less attached since there's 0 risk other than some exp? Not.. really. There's very little to actually put your own into. Sure? But like, in comparison to what, Paper Mario? Theres barely anything. Pokemon, Megaman Battle Network and Starforce, etc. So basically you're saying that you have to make up stuff, lol. in most games, they have a predetermined character automatically chooses a predetermined faction, a predetermined love interest, and a predetermined relationships and predetermined survival of characters. but these games are much more open and flexible than that. Thats such a terrible comparison though. You're saying a game with minor self-insert options are better than games that are better than those with basically none. You went from expressing how much freedom and stuff you get to none, which is it gonna be? Also if you really wanna continue this please dont write 5 pages, its very tiresome.
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Post by omnimegami on Feb 19, 2017 0:27:29 GMT -5
basically we disagree and we have our own incompatible perspectives.
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Post by Poog on Feb 19, 2017 1:59:26 GMT -5
Now you're talkin' in my kind of word count.
Regardless, try older FEs and you'll probably get it. Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, Blazing, etc. You might find something far more worthwhile, and you may even find a fondness for characters you claim suck when you know nothing about em'.
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Post by omnimegami on Mar 5, 2017 18:50:07 GMT -5
ah well I'm busy, I not on schedule with my new Disgaea 5 playthrough, Atelier Firis is in 2 days, FFXIV 3.5 part 2 is in the coming weeks, and I still have some projects I haven't even started at full speed yet.
I gotta cram gaming in this month to make more room for my other plans, so there's no distractions until June (Stormblood)
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Post by omnimegami on Mar 14, 2017 21:04:56 GMT -5
some pax east stuff
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Post by omnimegami on Mar 21, 2017 21:26:36 GMT -5
I have successfully preordered the LE!! first Fire Emblem LE I preordered!! the art is gorgeous!!
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Post by omnimegami on Mar 30, 2017 17:48:15 GMT -5
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Post by Poog on Apr 1, 2017 22:11:40 GMT -5
I wonder how upset people are going to be over the boats.
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