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Post by TheAtom on Mar 17, 2015 8:49:52 GMT -5
I use FL Studio 11 and SoundForge if something goes wrong after the rendering in FL. I consider my work as training for something greater too. But could you please say what exactly sounds amatueristic and which musics did you listen to? I can be wrong, but I evolved at least a bit since I started. also why that track is private? Ah okay! I'm working with FL Studio 9. Definitely enough resources for things then. I listened to the first 3, Sansai, and Neve à Primeira Vista. Perhaps it's the particular synthesizers/VST's you used, but they sounded a bit... Hmmm... mixing has never been my best quality I must admit, but I think it lacks body? Ugh I really don't know how to describe this, but it doesn't really feel like a coherent whole and I think if you compare it with other computer-made OST's you can hear a difference in depth. Perhaps it's the low frequencies that I'm missing a bit. I'm really not sure, I hope it helps a bit. If you'd like more feedback I can always try to really take some time out to give a proper listen to, say, three of the songs you think are your best, I can always see what I can come up with. You did manage to listen to the track though? It's supposed to give you access despite it being private... Not sure whether that works or not though. It's private because I still intend to lay vocals over it and perhaps release it officially (not that I'm on a label or anything, but I'm working something out with a guy from the US to get an EP properly released) so perhaps marketing-wise? I must admit that part of it is that I don't like randomly releasing things because I know the lack of attention for a work I'm really proud of will bum me out. XD
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Post by [Vitz!] on Mar 17, 2015 13:46:18 GMT -5
The first one in the list, the fly me to the moon remix is a very early one. It is there because even if the sheer amateurism it still sounds good.
For the rest I think you are listening with something without enough "bass". One of the things I love is using the low frequencies as high as I can possibly get without destroying the music.
Sansei (spelled with an "e") and Neve à Primeira Vista are actualy good examples of this, but those two have a lot more instruments with high frequencies since the first one was planned to sound a bit like some Keyboards from the 90's and the second one was made with the "Joy of the Winter" in mind and a lot of instruments with high frequencies come to mind when I think about it.
But as you describe my musics sound like they are "separate things playing together" if I got it right. Since I want the people to listen to all instruments used I don't use nothing to "mash" the frequencies around, understand. It is kinda hard to explain. If you want I can try to explain the whole process to you... but since my english is very bad I don't think I'll be able to explain it well...
I did listen to your track. Awesome work and good use of samples.
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Post by TheAtom on Mar 18, 2015 15:27:20 GMT -5
Ah yeah, excuse me for the typo. Tried my best in getting the other one right, and then make a mistake in the first one XD Hmmm I think I know to some extent what you mean, but for example in Neve, I feel like the (what seems to me like a) Saxophone synthesizer (comes in around 0:24) is placed on top of the instrumental, rather than being a part of it. I think one thing that might be part of it, despite perhaps the volume or the equalization of frequencies, is that the piano and bassline both sound pretty natural, acoustic, and the saxophone just really doesn't have that feeling. Not sure which VST you use, and as someone that relies either on freeware or FL Studio's built in synthesizers I don't have much knowledge on it, but perhaps that might be the issue I have with it. Besides that I've listened to it another good time and I do think it has a lot of potential. If you have the time, explain the whole process! I might be able to learn something from your steps for my own stuff as well! And thanks for having a listen! Always good!
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Post by [Vitz!] on Mar 18, 2015 17:18:29 GMT -5
Ah. I think I know what you mean in that case in particular. My VSTs for Orchestra instruments (Saxophone, Violin, Tuba, etc...) they are the hardest ones to get right. Not because they don't feel like part of the music, but because they don't sustain the notes very well. They stop to early to play and they start sounding a bit weird (not weird enough to sound bad of course, if they did sound bad you wouldn't have the oportunity to listen in the first place). _____________________________________________________ My process of making those musics is simple, but takes a lot of time and work to get right: 1 - I search for a midi of the music I'm planning to remix so I don't have to write note by note and instrument by instrument in the FL Studio. I did some of those things in the past using ACID from Sonic Foundry/Sony, but it was a very tiring process and for those musics I don't feel like I would do that again. _____________________________________________________ 2 - When I find the midi I test it in FL Studio with the basic instruments I had in mind some time before even deciding to make the remix. If the midi doesn't sound that good with the VST and other resources I have the production stops and the project is archived. I have more than 100 projects in that state. The project remains saved in my computer because if I get the chance to use them again, maybe I can make a remix with it. When looking for instruments I look for the ones that will emphasize the original idea of the music or the idea I had in mind when making the remix. I should also say that I ALWAYS want do put completely sinthetic and non-acoustic sounds with the more natural ones to make the remix as "hybrid" as possible since that's my style in almost everything I do (drawings, some videos I make, paintings and etc). I'm also very inspired by musics played by 90's Keyboards, old game musics and my very eclectic music taste (seriously, I can enjoy almost every music style in the world lol). _____________________________________________________ 3 - If the music passes the second level I'll start making things that will make the remix sounds like a remix and not a remastered version. Those things varies with the "flow" and the "feel" of the music. Ranging from something that sounds like the original, but in a different new way, to trying to make something completely different coming near to "destroy" the music. Of course that varies depending at how much I like the result at the end of the process. I use from the basic FX like EQ and some Chorus here and there to FX like Gross Beat, that can make the music of the instrument I use it play a lot different. I also use Hardcore to make the Slayer VST guitars sound better (and it works... most of the time at least). If this process also fails the project is archived. _____________________________________________________ 4 - If two and three don't fail I'll start thinking and researching to make a good and different name for the music. I want to give names to my musics that have some meaning or a bit of story behind them. For example: "Neve à Primeira Vista" comes from the phrase "Amor à Primeira Vista" from the portuguese that literally means "Love at first sight" and the moment that that music plays in Pokemon is the first time ever that we see snow outside of a cave in the franchise (specially if you played since the old ones), and the moment I saw the snow and heard the original song playing "I fell in love", it was "love at first sight"... or rather "snow at first sight" as the title of the music says. _____________________________________________________ 5 - After all that I start making the videos and images that I'll use to promote the music. The videos can be only images with the music playing in the background of the music playing with gameplay to show people how it would sound if it could be put in the game I'm playing. The images are most of the time simple photoshop edits to use as the cover of every single music, but sometimes I also make some drawings. _____________________________________________________ I think that is all. Tell me if I forgot something.
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Post by TheAtom on Mar 20, 2015 13:48:19 GMT -5
Somewhere in 2 and 3 I'm kind of missing out on the finetuning part. I see you're using EQ (I love being able to see the music in the Parametric EQ 2 in FL), but is it only to give a different sound to it? Because with a proper EQ, compression (and perhaps some reeverb), you can have your songs sound a lot more coherent already.
I personally am no genius with that (especially compression, I only use two presets, and sometimes I use it for sidechaining), but seeing your process now, that's where you might be able to improve on.
And I know Gross Beat, I use it to do the 'scratches' in my music (still faaar too poor for a good mixer and some turntables... Even my FL Studio is bootlegged XD). And Hardcore... yeah... I use it sometimes as well, but generally I come to the conclusion I can't really get it to do what I want it to... I also often work with a bitcrusher freeware I found. Can add a nice tape type of hiss, and it can turn everything into 8-bit style stuff.
And damn, that's a fairly nice process for name-making... most of my instrumental projects just have ridiculous names, and when I actually lay vocals over them I still have trouble...
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Post by [Vitz!] on Mar 20, 2015 21:00:32 GMT -5
My EQs completely depends on what the music needs and what I like. My tunning is generally in favor of the bass (or low frequencies), since I like that part in any music. If the bass is loud and the sound doesn't clip (or distort) is already good enough. As for mid and high frequencies depends on the music, but is also influenced by my tastes. So there is no such thing as a set-in-stone EQ for my musics, but I'm open to suggestions and tutorials for a better EQ. The file compression is generally mp3 at 320kbps (not so heavy file and doesn't miss the frequencies I need for my musics). Sometimes is a bit low, but nothing near 128kbps since this setting will make the music lose a lot of (audible) frequencies. Gross Beat tends to have some strange results most of the time with me, but when it works I use it without fear. Hardcore I use generally for Slayer since this VST by itself doesn't sound good enough, but sometimes I use it to distort OSC like I did with " Alexandre Got The Shot". It works kind of well sometimes. One thing that I didn't mention is that in a lot of musics I change the pitch of the drums. This makes them sound way better and make the musics sound unique when compared with each other in some way. The other thing is that sometimes the midi comes with some "errors" and I'm obligated to fix them in the process. Like in " The Dark Side of Myself" that the rythm guitar didn't have the proper pitch change in the start of the music in an earlier version. And I want that "bitcrusher" later. PM me with a site where I can download it.
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Post by TheAtom on Mar 21, 2015 8:02:51 GMT -5
Yeah I really can't help you with EQ... I feel like there might be where you could improve some of your sound, but I do all my stuff on feeling and I'm not even sure if mine's all that proper... I use it also for things you wouldn't need to be bothered with at all (like taking out lower or higher frequencies of a sample to separately mix the bass, mid and high frequencies)... What I meant with compression is more just the in-program compressor, the Fruity Compressor. It can work wonders on getting the volumes nice without having high peaks and can sometimes also work well in making things sound more coherent. Gross beat is a very simple plug-in that allows you to 'grab back' on earlier played stuff. If you play around with the stuff yourself you'll see how the points on the grid work, and that it's all logical. If you're getting strange results, it means you put the things in strange ways. I pretty much have Gross Beat all figured out, so if there's anything you're not sure about, ask me! Hardcore can give a pretty nice sound to drums as well, although that's much more of an acoustic feel than anything else. Try using the Worn Tape, or ACDC (I think it's the second preset or smth) on a drum sequence, if you fine-tune the effect a little bit, it'll sound pretty cool! It can make regular drums sound really hard-hitting. the pitch of the drums is all very dependent on the drumkit you use anyway. You ever layer your drums? I often layer my own drums over sampled drums, and sometimes layer other drums over that, to get that exact kick drum, or snare drum I want (with hi-hats I gotta keep it simple, although I quite regularly have at least two layers). But maybe it's something you have to pay less attention to, I'm not sure. Drums play a very important role in my type of music, so I'm very focused on it. As far as the bitcrusher goes, I'll see if I can find the right one. There are many online, but I only use one because it's very simple and gives fine results, while taking very little of my RAM. I also have a way heavier plugin called dblue_glitch, which allows for some really crazy effects, and can help you if you want to do some breakcore type of stuff. Downside of it is that there are still some ways in which it doesn't react properly to the midi controller in FL, that I don't know why (I sometimes do something stupid, and things go wrong, don't know how...), and it can nom up the RAM of my PC very quickly (so I definitely need Asio4All on, since I'm still working with a built-in soundcard).
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Post by [Vitz!] on Mar 21, 2015 12:36:37 GMT -5
I know how Gross Beat functions, but thanks for explaining.
I would only use Hardcore in eletronic drums (those used in dance music and others). Natural drums doesn't sound very nice with this thing.
If by using layers in my drums you mean separating by channel it usually depends on the midi or necessity. I use it every part of the drums in the same channel most of the time if the midi don't come with it separated already, but if there is a necessity for some part to be separated I'll do so. It is easier to me to work this way since most of the time I use FPC for the drums and some times I just put different drumkits on top of each other and it works fine.
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Post by TheAtom on Mar 21, 2015 14:48:29 GMT -5
I know how Gross Beat functions, but thanks for explaining. I would only use Hardcore in eletronic drums (those used in dance music and others). Natural drums doesn't sound very nice with this thing. If by using layers in my drums you mean separating by channel it usually depends on the midi or necessity. I use it every part of the drums in the same channel most of the time if the midi don't come with it separated already, but if there is a necessity for some part to be separated I'll do so. It is easier to me to work this way since most of the time I use FPC for the drums and some times I just put different drumkits on top of each other and it works fine. Yeah I kind of figured you would know, but since you talked about the strange results, I thought "maybe he doesn't... so just in case, I'll explain it". And... well... natural drums with me just means sampled drums then of course... I had a beat on soundcloud (now realize I took it off a while ago) on which I did that. Whoa... your whole drums on one channel? So that's kicks, snares, hi-hats, rides, everything? I would personally recommend putting them separately in there, combine the different snares that you want to sound together in a "layer" channel (just in your pattern). You are then necessitated to record them separately, but I'm not sure if that's really a problem. It does make it possible, for example, to work on the high frequencies of your kicks (the 2-3kHz range) without messing with your hihats. Then again, our purposes are very different so maybe yours just works out for you! Haven't really heard anything wrong with your drums anyway. But I'm really not sure if I'm really saying relevant things here...
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Post by [Vitz!] on Mar 21, 2015 17:23:27 GMT -5
Yes you are being relevant this whole time. It is actualy good to see a different point of view.
No need to use the drums in different layers sometimes though. I use them in the same channel most of the time because sometimes the drums are too complex in the original midi to work separated and it would only make my work harder for no reason at all.
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Post by TheAtom on Mar 21, 2015 18:13:39 GMT -5
That's good to know I generally was the person being explained stuff, and never really explained anything to others XD Hmmm... Yeah, I must admit, I have no clue how it is importing midi files. Like, what does it look like? Is it like just starting out with a .flp? I mean, my process is basically this 1. Look for sample/stumble over a sample (like either watching anime, hearing a soundtrack, or actively looking on youtube, or going through the cheap boxes at second hand record stores), often first a melodious one (starting out with the drums often doesn't work well), and second the drums. 2. See which parts I want to use, how I want to use them, how long my cuts should be, all of that: cut it up. 3. Put the whole batch in the Fruity Slicer, get the tempo how I want it, and see if changing up the pitch will do it any good (used to almost always make it higher, now I'm less fond of it), then start playing around on the keyboard, until I find a nice melody in it. Sometimes I follow quite closely the original, sometimes I flip it completely. Sometimes I take long samples, other times it's not more than 1 or even half a beat. This I do for the general melody in the verse, for the chorus, for a variation in the verse etc. While sampling is almost inherently repetitive, you could hear in the beat I shared above that I'm no huge fan of the "I got a 2/4/8-bar loop, now I just need to loop it long enough for a couple of verses and choruses"-mentality, although there are songs that do that, that I think are amazing. 3.1. Depending on the type of sample, I try to figure out the rootnote for a fitting bassline with the parametric EQ (trial and error for a person that can't read notes), or look for drumsamples in my drumkit library to layer over the sample. 4. Do some (basic) mixing. Sometimes there's a particular part in the sample I want more present (like background vocals or smth, or a bassline), sometimes just to be able to mix them in separate channels. Drums I EQ a LOT, kicks needs boosts here, cuts there, snares NEVER sound proper when I put them in the first time. Sometimes they need more body, other times a bit more of a spark. Lots of trial and error as well. Sometimes I go back to 3.1 to choose a different bass-vst or different drumsamples (I say sometimes, but I mean almost constantly, at any point in the process I can suddenly hear the snare in a different way and think like: nah, I need a different one, more like *where's that one again...* The mixing involves at least the Fruity Compressor, Parametric EQ 2, and sometimes bitcrusher, hardcore etc. 5. Go back to step 1, but change it to a drumbreak, then go through steps 2-4 again. 6. Not always, but sometimes I feel like I need a second melodious sample, so then back to 1-4. This time, in 3 I need to find the root notes of all the separate cuts I got for the second sample, to see how much I need to change the pitch to get it in line with the first melodious sample (this can be a bitch, as obviously not all songs have the same chord progression). Admittedly, this is why often the second sample is only for small vocal cuts or just for little extra things that only sporadically pass by. I personally am no genius in this, so there's a lot of effort in getting things to match, but it works out generally. 7. Sometimes, I want to have a part that's in double the tempo, to add a little DnB aspect to perhaps the chorus. Then, back to step 1-4, but with a different sounding drumsample. 8. Sometimes, I also want a little vocal sample to 'scratch', go from 1-4 again. This time, the EQ'ing is very intensive as I need to do my best to only get the vocals in there, and the least of the underlying instrumental (since I only want the vocals, not the instrumental). Instead of into the FL Slicer, these I generally drop just in there (unless I have several cuts from one track). In the mixing process, I use double-curved 1- or 1/2-step sized parts in IL Gross Beat for that scratching sound. I link a midi controller to it so that I can change between the patterns in Gross Beat whenever I want. I sometimes add a delay at the end of it for a smoother transition and it can give a nice effect (you could hear all this in the beat I shared above). 9. Now the nitpicking starts, the listening, the listening again, the changing small things here and there, the adding of this, the dropping of that, all things described above that I'll be going over again. Sometimes I try out some vocals for it, and realize that some parts could be changed a bit then, or switched up a bit. But very little of what I do in this stage is not described in any of the above steps. That's about it for my process, I think... Generally save it as a .mp3 in about 128kbps for quick sending, quick listening for others, and .wav for anything more.
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Post by [Vitz!] on Mar 21, 2015 20:18:08 GMT -5
Wow! Lots of information! I'm gonna read them all later when I have time and patience. Just, please, separate the information like I did in my post to make reading all that less tiring. But anyway... Importing midi files is as obvious as it sounds: You just put the midi in the program and start editing. It isn't necessarily like opening a flp because a midi is simply just the "bones" of a composition, like a music sheet but for computers to read. It looks like this: prntscr.com/6jqvtv
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Post by TheAtom on Mar 21, 2015 21:41:34 GMT -5
I added empty lines between the different steps, is that what you meant? Ah... that does make sense! But then, you have different midi files for the different instruments or..? And just curious, you actually have a MIDI keyboard yourself (as in, not just a computer keyboard, as that's what I use to live-play my stuff. Gets confusing since not all keyboard keys are notes XD)? Oh, and lol @ "I Saw Demons For Breakfast" Also see you got all that in one pattern, am I right? I'm not sure how others do that, but I maniacally divide everything into little bits and pieces. Then, if I want a different drumsequence in a different place, I just do that in the main window. And especially if I want to do big changes to the form of the song, this feels much easier to me. This one's even color coded! Not something I do often, but this was made before I found out that with alt+arrows I can move patterns up and down...
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Post by TheAtom on Mar 21, 2015 22:20:05 GMT -5
Oh yeah! Got so caught up in explaining I forgot to ask! Do you have one midi file with all the instruments or do you have one drum midi one bass midi etc?
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Post by [Vitz!] on Mar 22, 2015 15:56:07 GMT -5
I finally could read what you wrote and... well... You process is a lot more complex than mine! You actualy compose your music, something I don't do ( yet). I would hardly say you do remix like me because there is actualy composing in your process and remix is normaly a process where you don't have to do any composing at all (sometimes you can, but never getting too far from the music you are using as the base of your remix). Despite the hard work I have with my musics I don't do the hardest part that is composing the music, since I get the midis from the internet. Only the mixing part is kind of related to what I do, but without using the scratching thing and other things you mentioned. However it doesn't mean i didn't compose anything at all in my musics. Some of them have little pieces I composed (with my totally basic knowledge) for the melody and little modifications in the midis. Sometimes I even use some beats I composed myself using a freeware program called HammerHead some time ago, but there is only two musics used those: Neve à Primeira Vista and O Prelúdio para o Pesadelo. But anyway. I don't always do everything in one pattern. A lot of musics demand that I dismantle the midi in pieces to make it work while some others pratically scream to me saying that I can't do this. The one in the image I posted in particular is one of the cases where I can't simply divide everything and it's no use to do so, since the music is with the wrong bpm (if you click the image and listen to the music you will see that it doesn't sound like something with 95bpm). That always happens when I use those old midi from old games because for some reason they where programmed to be like this. When I can make a music with separated patterns it looks like this: That one is also color coded and that's also something i don't do often but this time I just wanted to do this. This music in particular took like 11 hours of hard work to make. I use midis with all the instruments because I need the music complete to make my remixes and I do have some keyboards in my house: one is a controller keyboard and the other is the normal rythm keyboard that comes with a lot things, but I don't use them to make my remixes because I'm not very good playing it and because my father need them all the time for his things.
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