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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 11, 2015 22:45:49 GMT -5
Is no secret that lesbian relationships are an important factor of fanservice on Japanese media and Senran Kagura is no exception. The way I see it, the biggest "offenders" are: -Asuka/Homura: Admitedly, this is more obvious from Homura whom shows a stronger interest on Asuka's actions and well being. Asuka however, does consider her a very special friend and treates her differently. This song though a.pomf.se/ffulzj.mp3I find hard to see it as anything different to a romantic one. -Yomi/Ikaruga: Their dynamic it brings to mind that of an old married couple, lots of banter and small fights but a deep bond between them. Oddly enough, they were the ones to get a push on Deep Crimson-Katsuragi/Hikage: Katsuragi has kind of been the poster girl for the subtext on this series and going by the little info I've seen about EV, is not changing any time soon, so is no surprise her relationship with Hikage has certain shades of this. However, of all the main pairings, this is the most underdeveloped. Katsuragi fits the profile of a casanova lacking the strong feelings present on the Asu/Homu and Ika/Yomi dynamics while Hikage's pretty low key on her interest for Katsu. -Haruka/Yagyu/Hibari: You need to be pretty dense to see this dynamic as subtext but even then, is mostly one sided. Haruka's character makes obvious gender isn't an obstacle for her but she keeps a very large soft spot for Hibari, Yagyu is a lesbain character, no doubt about it but Hibari on the other hand isn't written mature enough to be interested on romantic relationships. Outside of them, there's no much subtext on the reamining characters: Mirai is the odd man out since more than affection she craves attention. Rin is canonically in love with Kiriya while Dai is your classic Blood Knight archetype, her only love is the battlefield. Miyabi and Imu are another couple but the relationship aside of being one sided is not very developed (mostly to some subpar writing on the Versus series. We don't have a lot of insight on the Gessen and Hebijo girls outside of the attitude on battle, making them more of less blank slates) Murakumo deserves a mention though, she has a ton of chemistry with Shiki -probably the most chemistry between Gessen- and is a recurrent theme her slightly overwhelming interest (for Shiki's taste at least) on her fellow Gessen. So, what are your thoughts on the matter SIA?
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Post by thesameguy on Apr 11, 2015 23:10:46 GMT -5
On the subject of Mirai, I see that she's into Haruka. Haruka, on the other hand, appears aware of this, but treats Mirai as she would with everyone else, with the obvious exception of Hibari.
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Post by Heiji Koumori on Apr 12, 2015 6:52:01 GMT -5
Well, I think in most of the "pairings" they only do that because of the "fanservice".
I mean, even if you put the HomuraxAsuka that way, and the game itself does, I can't really see them in that way. Why? Because what it seems more to me is something like Vegeta and Goku or other characters from different shounens, with the exception of SK being an all-female cast with a lot of fanservice. I see them with an inner bond, not only a friendship, but not a love affair either.
I see them as really close rivals and friends with a bit of spice for those who enjoy that kind of fanservice.
That way each of us can think of them as we are pleased.
For other characters...
Katsuragi obviously like to harass girls, but for her feelings we still haven't seen anything. Sometimes it seems she really love girls, other times it seems she only do that because she loves to see the other girls freaking-out. Don't get me wrong, I think she is lesbian, but... well, an all-female cast and the japanese thought of "yuri = fanservice"... I can't look at it seriously.
Hikage is Hikage.
And for Yagyuu... it confuses me a lot. It appears to me as the typical sis-complex character (after all it's pointed out a lot of times how Hibari reminds her of her sister, and other characters see them like that). Not that she really LOVES Hibari, not as a romantical love, but more as an obsessed and overprotector big-sis with, as I said before, that yuristic spice for fanservice sake.
Haruka, on the other hand, really show in the series that she likes to harass and that she is turned on by both genres. What she shows for Hibari is not really different from Yagyuu.
Actually, the only character I can say is really into yuri is Imu. Since the first momment she is in love of Miyabi. I think she isn't homosexual, I think she is, directly, Miyabisexual.
For me, in a game like this, I can't really say a character is lesbian even if she looks like that.
That's for me, of course.
(I have to say that I don't enjoy yuri. Not that I hate it, but for me it means nothing (as fanservice), so it's a bit difficult for me to really accept a character as lesbian in an all-female fanservice cast. Most of the yuri seems poor fanservice for me, nothing really to be taken seriously.)
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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 12, 2015 7:24:45 GMT -5
I just knew someone would compare Asuka and Homura with Goku and Vegeta.
See, the biggest difference is that Homura is way more involved and concerned by Asuka that Vegeta ever did for Goku. Outside of comparing strenght Vegeta never cared much about Goku while Homura's actions on Versus are motivated out of concern for Asuka.
I didnt say anything very different about the other characters, although saying that Yagyuu is just a siscon is selling her short. They made a point of showing on Versus that she see Hibari for who is and that she acknowledges her sister's death.
What are you thoughts on Ikaruga and Yomi?
I have to disagree with considering everything poor fanservice though, the dynamics are pretty well developed considering romance isnt the focus of the series.
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Post by Heiji Koumori on Apr 12, 2015 8:23:10 GMT -5
I said poor fanservice for me, because I'm not in that kind of stuff.
Let me explain myself better:
I'm not into yuri but that doesn't mean that I would hate a character for being lesbian (this applies both for yuri and for yaoi, I'm simply not into it), so for me, most of the "yuri" in senran seems like simple fanservice. I'm not telling that the series is bad because of that, Katsuragi is my my second fav chara (Homura the first) and... well... she loves to harass people and is a chara I think could be lesbian. If she is, it's ok, I'm fine with that.
In the end, what I'm trying to explain is that, since I'm not into yuri and, as we all know, in japanese media de yuri is often used as a comical and fanservice resource more than with deeper significance, I see most of the yuri in the series as that: comical or fanservice resource that fuels the imagination of the fans.
'Cause my imagination is not fueled by the yuri, there are only a few characters I can actually see being lesbians.
I expect to have explained myself now.
Oh, and Vegeta and Goku is only a example. Asuka and Homura are really close friends, not like them, but I think you know what my point is.
Now...
For Ikaruga and Yomi, for now, I didn't saw anything that could make me think of them in that way either, but you said that in SK2 their relationship grows deeper. Since I don't know anything about SK2 (I'm going to play the game when it's out in occident, just like the others) I prefer to not say anything about them for now.
And yeah, I know that Yagyuu aknowledges that her sister is actually dead, but is implied that Hibari reminds her of her sister. That's why I said the siscom. She looks at Hibari as an older sister would but, at the same time, she is somewhat attracted to her.
I think that Yagyuu is that kind of character, a sister complex one. Is like you said about Katsunee, she is the "casanova" type of character, but her character is a lot deeper than that.
Oh, and for Mirai x Haruka... what it seems to me is that Haruka beinng one of the most mature looking chara in the cast and Mirai being physically younger than she really is (and less mature than most of the cast) looks at her as a someone she wants to be like and to be aknowledge by.
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Post by BlakJakXXI on Apr 12, 2015 17:28:20 GMT -5
I have no problems with its presence in the series, whether it's handled in a serious or comedic approach.
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Post by Seventh on Apr 12, 2015 21:08:56 GMT -5
The important thing to remember about subtext is that it means it's up for interpretation - there's hints there, but they're laid out in a manner that they could be taken by some as one thing (yuri for example) and by some as something else (purely friendship), so with that in mind, I think arguing about whether or not it's there won't get anywhere since it's more often than not really a matter of whether or not someone likes or sees it rather than it not being there. It is there in that it's there to be interpreted, it's just a matter of how you feel about it, I say. With that said, as far as specifics, I'd say you can find it all over the place in this series. You'll see it to varying degrees in every pair of "rivals" and obviously within the different teams as well. tzitzimine covered most of the obvious ones, but there's also traces of Mirai/Haruka, Mirai/Yomi, and Ryobi/Ryona to add around the place. Since it's subtext a lot of the time, you don't really have to think of it necessarily like "they're definitely putting these two together only" - Vert from Neptunia gets around with at least three other characters that I can think of, for example, and every single one has at least one other character you'll find them often with. And it's even in New Wave too. Many of the New Hanzo and New Hebijo girls all seem to really look up to certain characters to name some of the more obvious ones, but they're not the only ones. We need some translations on some things for more on that, but just looking at the cards make some of 'em pretty clear I'd say.
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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 12, 2015 22:17:45 GMT -5
Well Seventh, the thread is mostly to know the thoughts of the board about it. SKG is pretty clear on being against it due the whole waifu thing, so I was curious about what would think fans that aren't that into the waifus. Having said that, there's a slight bias on the series towards Yuri considering Takaki's tastes. Case in point: I found Homura and Asuka dynamics hard to take at face value as mere rivalry due how personally involved are with each other. I mean, they consider best friends their respective teammates but have a very different attitude between them. And is a dynamic that I haven't found on other rivalries yet. I totally forgot about the New Waves, Ginrei and Leo are the most clear example with Kumi and Misato and Kocho and Kanzaki being on a second and (distant) third place respectively. Fuma is either Asukasexual or a breakdown from kidnapping her and trying to become her
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Post by Heiji Koumori on Apr 13, 2015 3:55:33 GMT -5
Seventh , we are no arguing but sharing our opinions. As I said before the yuri thing is put there for free interpretation. I'll quote myself: So in the end I'm not trying to convince anyone of the characters sexuality. For me, the only ones I can accept as yuri are these that can tell they are truly in love with the other (Miyabi, for example). I'm not denying the possibility of the rest of the cast being lesbians, but I can't think of them like that, that's all. Although, there are a few I think they probably are. I think this thread is good for sharing our impresions of the characters relationships ^^
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Post by Poog on Apr 13, 2015 12:33:01 GMT -5
Iunno, I dont really see Ikaruga/Yomi as a thing. They do get along now, but it never really seems to be anything beyond an awkward friendship. If anything, it'd be Katsuragi/Ikaruga, especially after reading Spark. Then it brings Hikage/Yomi, but I see them more as BFFs.
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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 13, 2015 12:56:28 GMT -5
As I mentioned, the biggest push towards Yomi and Ikaruga comes from SK2. Is hard to not see their interactions as not being, at least, infatuated with each other and then you have the promo material: That I seem to remember included a small Ika/Yomi story. On Versus their dynamic while diminished due Murakumo, offers some interesting nuggets like their bantering, the plays they stage or Ikaruga dragging herself explictly to Yomi during the Hebijo arc.
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Post by Seventh on Apr 13, 2015 15:25:03 GMT -5
Well Seventh, the thread is mostly to know the thoughts of the board about it. SKG is pretty clear on being against it due the whole waifu thing, so I was curious about what would think fans that aren't that into the waifus. Seventh , we are no arguing but sharing our opinions. As I said before the yuri thing is put there for free interpretation. I'll quote myself: So in the end I'm not trying to convince anyone of the characters sexuality. For me, the only ones I can accept as yuri are these that can tell they are truly in love with the other (Miyabi, for example). I'm not denying the possibility of the rest of the cast being lesbians, but I can't think of them like that, that's all. Although, there are a few I think they probably are. I think this thread is good for sharing our impresions of the characters relationships ^^ Well, what I said was also my own opinion about things as much as it was replying to other replies. Like, for me, I always find it weird when people who don't like/see it start getting into whether or not characters are in love with each other or lesbians, since those are topics that go way beyond mere subtext to me. If any of that was on screen, then I can't see subtext as even on the table since it'd just be flat out confirmed at that point. I totally forgot about the New Waves, Ginrei and Leo are the most clear example with Kumi and Misato and Kocho and Kanzaki being on a second and (distant) third place respectively. Fuma is either Asukasexual or a breakdown from kidnapping her and trying to become her You would do good to remember them, then! I bet there's probably more than that there too (Ayame is a mini-Katsuragi and idolizes Katsuragi on top of that after all), but you can only ascertain so much from what New Wave offers and from what we have of that in English. Iunno, I dont really see Ikaruga/Yomi as a thing. They do get along now, but it never really seems to be anything beyond an awkward friendship. If anything, it'd be Katsuragi/Ikaruga, especially after reading Spark. Then it brings Hikage/Yomi, but I see them more as BFFs. Personally, I'm just reminded of Burst and how I felt Ikaruga was basically... nonexistent except for her growing relationship, whatever you want to call it, with Yomi. On the other hand, you're really throwing me for a loop with Katsuragi/Ikaruga.
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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 14, 2015 2:16:32 GMT -5
The Katsu/Ikaruga ship comes mainly from the Spark manga. But even being the huge shipper that I am, I didn't saw an interest beyond simple friendship between them. Same deal with Yomi and Hikage.
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Post by Heiji Koumori on Apr 16, 2015 2:36:08 GMT -5
Btw, tzitzimine, where I can find that short story about Ikaruga & Yomi?
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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 16, 2015 2:41:21 GMT -5
If I'm remembering correctly, it was one of those store bonus bundled with the game preorders. Sadly, I don't think it was ever translated.
A shame really, most of the promotional material have lots of good stuff.
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