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Post by Seventh on Apr 19, 2015 14:44:26 GMT -5
Looking at the website and trailers, not to mention remembering some of their playthroughs, contrary to the odd opinion some have of the 3DS games, there is fanservice in them. It's possible Estival being announced was a factor, though I think people may have just been put off from how different in looked from Burst combined with some of the new elements like the giant boss fights, which as I've said before, looked suuuuuuper tedious before release. I think someone mentioned there may have been a patch addressing that, but still.
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Post by leanmeanlovinmachine on Apr 19, 2015 15:06:13 GMT -5
I know, I'm looking at some too. It could be just a console war thing I guess where a lot of people settled after SV. I have no idea what it is otherwise. It looks real fun but maybe the screen size and controls had a part in making it hard. SK2 seems more 3D than burst, it's hard moving in games fast with just that circlepad.
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Post by ChaddyFantome on Apr 20, 2015 15:34:29 GMT -5
Well the fact that Marvelous decided it was worth localizing shows they haven't completely lost faith in it. {Spoiler} And again, they went out of there way to mention it in EV. As for the game being tedious, I doubt it. The series as a whole has always been tedious. What got peoples feet in the door was the fanservice and as mentioned, SK2 has plenty of it. In some respects, more than SV even. I wasn't aware of the whole EV release issue. That undoubtedly had a huge effect on the sales. When you announce a game is being made for the graphics powerhouse that is the PS4 with the characters from SV that aren't in SK2 as well as new characters, it makes sense people will hold onto their money. Besides, from my understanding, SK2 didn't sell bad, right? Just under Marvelous' initial expectations, yes? Initial day one sales were low, but over time, it sold about as well as Burst, right? If that is the case, then it makes sense to think people weren't uninterested in the game, but were more interested in other games at the time, or were holding on the their cash in wait for EV. Anyways, to be more on topic, I hope they aren't scrapping hubrooms in future games.  Some of the best dialog was found in them and they could do alot more with them. I wouldn't mind if they implemented a unlockable decorations. I would be quite content with the possibility of hanging the bras and pantsu of my fallen enemies on my wall.  |
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Post by Dai-T on Apr 20, 2015 15:41:28 GMT -5
Well the fact that Marvelous decided it was worth localizing shows they haven't completely lost faith in it. {Spoiler} And again, they went out of there way to mention it in EV. As for the game being tedious, I doubt it. The series as a whole has always been tedious. What got peoples feet in the door was the fanservice and as mentioned, SK2 has plenty of it. In some respects, more than SV even. I wasn't aware of the whole EV release issue. That undoubtedly had a huge effect on the sales. When you announce a game is being made for the graphics powerhouse that is the PS4 with the characters from SV that aren't in SK2 as well as new characters, it makes sense people will hold onto their money. Besides, from my understanding, SK2 didn't sell bad, right? Just under Marvelous' initial expectations, yes? Initial day one sales were low, but over time, it sold about as well as Burst, right? If that is the case, then it makes sense to think people weren't uninterested in the game, but were more interested in other games at the time, or were holding on the their cash in wait for EV. Anyways, to be more on topic, I hope they aren't scrapping hubrooms in future games. Some of the best dialog was found in them and they could do alot more with them. I wouldn't mind if they implemented a unlockable decorations. I would be quite content with the possibility of hanging the bras and pantsu of my fallen enemies on my wall. Hub rooms tend to make the game crush they are not the best programmers |
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Post by ChaddyFantome on Apr 20, 2015 16:39:34 GMT -5
Hub rooms tend to make the game crush they are not the best programmers Really? i have yet to run into that issue. Regardless, they are just gonna have to git gud at making hub rooms then. =P I honestly wouldn't mind seeing entire schools become a hub actually. Nothing too big of course. Has anyone ever considered stealth sections in the game? i mean, these are ninja's after all. |
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Post by [Vitz!] on Apr 20, 2015 17:42:43 GMT -5
Stealth sections would make characters like Hibari far more useful. It would help with variety too.
I'm completely with you in this one.
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Post by ChaddyFantome on Apr 20, 2015 18:41:16 GMT -5
Also, I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but some platforming segments would be cool. EV did intoduce Wall running, right? But as far as I am aware, it is mostly underutilized. Having some basic parkour segments in some levels to divvy up the combat sections would really help to change the pace of game play. Nothing too demanding as to take the focus from combat of course. Just basic simple stuff. Maybe have places where you need to jump from wall to wall. Would make for some nice pantie shots too. :drool:  |
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Post by thesameguy on Apr 20, 2015 19:35:04 GMT -5
Also, I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but some platforming segments would be cool. EV did intoduce Wall running, right? But as far as I am aware, it is mostly underutilized. Having some basic parkour segments in some levels to divvy up the combat sections would really help to change the pace of game play. Nothing too demanding as to take the focus from combat of course. Just basic simple stuff. Maybe have places where you need to jump from wall to wall. Would make for some nice pantie shots too. :drool: You sir, are hired! Anyway, how about a cheap gimmick like secret areas within the game with unlockable custunization options or funny crap inside. |
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Post by ChaddyFantome on Apr 20, 2015 19:47:00 GMT -5
Also, I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but some platforming segments would be cool. EV did intoduce Wall running, right? But as far as I am aware, it is mostly underutilized. Having some basic parkour segments in some levels to divvy up the combat sections would really help to change the pace of game play. Nothing too demanding as to take the focus from combat of course. Just basic simple stuff. Maybe have places where you need to jump from wall to wall. Would make for some nice pantie shots too. :drool: You sir, are hired! Anyway, how about a cheap gimmick like secret areas within the game with unlockable custunization options or funny crap inside. I am a huge fan of unlockables so anything, even if only aesthetically, is a plus for me. I am admittedly a bit of a completionist. xD It would be hilarious if we could read some of the girls diaries or something, just for kicks. Nothing too different from the dialog in the hubrooms, but it would be a great way to get some cheap laughs of more insight into the characters. For example, it would be funny to go into Yomi's closet or something and find it filled with beansprouts or go into Homura desk and find she has list of bad jokes she is writing up. xD Heck, have it that you could unlock some panstu or bathing suits by rummaging through their stuff. Just random stuff off the top of my head. |
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Post by Seventh on Apr 20, 2015 20:31:00 GMT -5
So considering how much time I just spent throwing this together I figured I'd repost it here from the criticisms thread - basically, I want to see the story style presented in SV (unconnected team and character-based stories) expanded on in future titles. And I've written up an example of how I think that could go! The hypothetical game has 6 teams with 5 characters each - 30 characters in all. I didn't write this with the existing teams in mind, so just consider this just looking at the concept in action more than anything. {Ready yourselves!}Team story: Focuses on the team through 5 tiers (based on difficulty) of 5+ stages, complete with cutscenes and so on.
Character stories: Focuses on an individual character going through 4-6 stages with cutscenes at certain intervals and dialogue in every stage.
You don't even need a formula like SV to still have everyone interact with each other. Here's an easy example:
Team 1's story:
Chapter 1: A training arc with mooks and battles against each other.
Chapter 2: They have friendly training with Team 2, which is a team they're friends with.
Chapter 3: They get attacked by Team 4 for plot and lose, which upsets Team 2 so they go off for revenge in the name of the wounded/recovering Team 1.
Chapter 4: They learn from Team 5, who has a bone to pick with Team 4, that Team 4 is doing bad things and so they do training with Team 5. Some of the stages are fights and some of the stages are cooperative levels fighting mooks depending on how the pairs interact - maybe you'll get different 2v2 stages.
Chapter 5: They have to fight mind controlled Team 2 and emotional blah blah happens, and by the end, their resolve to fight Team 4 is at its peak.
Chapter 6: Big showdown between Team 1 and Team 4, supernatural stuff, maybe a plot twist or sympathy reveal, maybe foreshadowing for Team 4's story, in the end it's happy for Team 1.
Notice how Team 3 and 6 in this six team game is completely absent. This is fine, because there is no "main" story in such a game - just a bunch of alternate paths. If we want to see Team 3 or 6 interacting with Team 1, maybe it doesn't happen at all, or maybe it just happens elsewhere.
Team 1's Leader's Story: She wants to train with the leader of Team 2!
Stage 1: Team 1 and 2's leaders fight a certain amount of mooks within a time limit while bantering.
Stage 2: Team 1's leader is set up against two of Team 2's teammates and fights them by herself.
Stage 3: Team 1 and 2's leaders fight against 4 and 6's leaders.
Stage 4: Team 1 and 2's leaders fight against 3 and 5's leaders.
Stage 5: Team 1's leader fights Team 2's leader.
With that, even just through banter and minor cutscenes, even if it's totally disconnected to the story modes (which is totally fine, there's absolutely zero reason these things to do anything like that because nothing is necessarily connected - you just need to get a general idea when all is said and done), you now have even more added to the relationships and narrative of the game. But let's go on!
Team 3's story:
Chapter 1: We learn it's a new ninja school created by a former student of Team 5's school so there's a rivalry there. Mook fights for the first stages, the last stage is Team 6 coming to issue a challenge against Team 3 by means of smackdown.
Chapter 2: Team 3's leader has confidence issues so she decides seeks out Team 1, who has a good reputation as good shinobi, for help, but they have to travel since Team 1's school is far away, so there's a series of tough mook missions again in this chapter.
Chapter 3: When Team 3 finally arrives, it turns out Team 1 is missing! Luckily, a random member of Team 2 is around and decides to lend Team 3 a hand, and so we get another training chapter. The chapter ends with a dramatic twist - the leader of Team 1 arriving and striking down the leader of Team 2, who the leader of Team 3 has become fast friends with!
Chapter 4: Team 3 gets trained by Team 1 in the most unexpected way they could have thought - by beating the mind control out of them!
Chapter 5: Team 3 and Team 1 together takes on Team 4. Supernatural stuff is kept on a smaller note here, instead hinting at something else, and Team 3 leaves Team 1 on good terms and returns home for their battle with Team 5...
Chapter 6: ... which they have!
Now here's another important thing to notice: With this model, despite how I've yet to make up a story mode for them, Team 2 has played an important role twice now. Because the stories aren't following the same relative plot and aren't being formulaic, while still using the same model, there's a lot of room to do a lot of cool stuff to be done.
Team 3's Leader's Story: She wants to prove herself to 5's leader!
Stage 1: Team 3's leader and one of her teammates fight a bunch of mooks trained by a member of Team 5, who they fight at the end.
Stage 2: Team 3's leader is ganged up on by two members of Team 5.
Stage 3: Team 3's leader fights Team 5's leader.
Stage 4: Team 3's leader fights two of her own teammates.
Stage 5: Team 3's leader teams up with Team 5's leader to fight 4 and 6's leaders! It turns out 5's leader was just being tsundere towards her all along.
Team 4's story:
Chapter 1: In a jarring twist of events, the first few stages are nice and everyone in Team 4 is really friendly in their solitary mountaintop school until Team 6 comes in and ruins everything. If Team 4 doesn't cooperate, horrible things will happen!
Chapter 2: Their first target is Team 5. Team 5 gets beaten down brutally and they see Team 4 as they're seen in other stories, while we see how Team 4 feels about it all - conflict abound!
Chapter 3: Two members of Team 4 run away, first stage is one of them as the leader with the other as an NPC fighting mooks as they flee together. Meanwhile the other two (sans leader) are in disagreement over what to do, when 4's leader is hit with the mind control they dished out to 5 after nearly killing them - oh no! Play as 4's leader powered up destroying her teammates and enjoy the guilt. Back to the runaways, play as the other one in a stage that is closer to wherever they're fleeing to, then enjoy having to play as the two members the leader beat up earlier, now mind controlled themselves, coming down to bring back the runaways by force.
Chapter 4: Having given up, Team 4 goes along with whatever they're ordered by 6. You get to play as suped up versions of your characters and take on members of Teams 1 and 2 in 1v2 throwdowns that leave most of those teams down and ready to be controlled, but just as the leaders of 1 and 2 are about to be finished off, Team 5 appears, having been rescued by Team 3, and together all four teams chase off the severely outnumbered Team 4.
Chapter 5: Some members of Team 4 are feeling hope after seeing the other teams break free, but they're beaten down by it and sent slaughtering mooks of the other teams' schools. It cracks more with each fight and there's a confrontation with the teams towards the end.
Chapter 6: Team 4, inspired by the other teams they met across their journey, rebels against Team 6, who it turns out is only unlockable after beating 1-5's stories, and is successful in doing so! ... and everyone ends up dying horribly after their fights, but they all have smiles on their faces as they go.
Team 5's story could have them more involved with the supernatural aspect of things and helping 4 out of their BAD END a little more, Team 2's could be another lighter one to balance things out given how 1, 4, 5, and 6's stories go, while in 6's, they could decide to completely disregard using 4 as pawns (or maybe 4 gets away to seek aid from the other teams, giving them all advance notice) and just go all out and go after everyone else themselves - and look at that, now the series even has some villains to reuse once the credits roll.
Once all is said and done, you have some vague idea for characters now (I'm assuming that either all these teams are "new" or not established yet, or 1 and 2 were the only established ones prior to this hypothetical game) that can then carry over into future titles in a similar manner. Characters have gotten themselves established, relationships have been formed while others have the potential to form, and right here you've got a whole plethora of ways to go in future games. |
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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 20, 2015 21:53:54 GMT -5
SK2 and Versus' hub world worked perfectly fine. I don't know what the hell are you talking about.
Anyways, in my experience you either have a good plataformer or a good action game. You can't have both. A common complaint on every great action series are the plataforming segments, why? Because break the flow of the game, many times they clash directly with the action part of the game (see GOW's Hades Temple) and in the end are just padding to artificially extend the game's lifespan.
However, you can add "weird" elements on the game as long they are optional. And well, SK2 already did that.
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Post by ChaddyFantome on Apr 20, 2015 22:12:28 GMT -5
So considering how much time I just spent throwing this together I figured I'd repost it here from the criticisms thread - basically, I want to see the story style presented in SV (unconnected team and character-based stories) expanded on in future titles. And I've written up an example of how I think that could go! The hypothetical game has 6 teams with 5 characters each - 30 characters in all. I didn't write this with the existing teams in mind, so just consider this just looking at the concept in action more than anything. {Spoiler}{Ready yourselves!}Team story: Focuses on the team through 5 tiers (based on difficulty) of 5+ stages, complete with cutscenes and so on.
Character stories: Focuses on an individual character going through 4-6 stages with cutscenes at certain intervals and dialogue in every stage.
You don't even need a formula like SV to still have everyone interact with each other. Here's an easy example:
Team 1's story:
Chapter 1: A training arc with mooks and battles against each other.
Chapter 2: They have friendly training with Team 2, which is a team they're friends with.
Chapter 3: They get attacked by Team 4 for plot and lose, which upsets Team 2 so they go off for revenge in the name of the wounded/recovering Team 1.
Chapter 4: They learn from Team 5, who has a bone to pick with Team 4, that Team 4 is doing bad things and so they do training with Team 5. Some of the stages are fights and some of the stages are cooperative levels fighting mooks depending on how the pairs interact - maybe you'll get different 2v2 stages.
Chapter 5: They have to fight mind controlled Team 2 and emotional blah blah happens, and by the end, their resolve to fight Team 4 is at its peak.
Chapter 6: Big showdown between Team 1 and Team 4, supernatural stuff, maybe a plot twist or sympathy reveal, maybe foreshadowing for Team 4's story, in the end it's happy for Team 1.
Notice how Team 3 and 6 in this six team game is completely absent. This is fine, because there is no "main" story in such a game - just a bunch of alternate paths. If we want to see Team 3 or 6 interacting with Team 1, maybe it doesn't happen at all, or maybe it just happens elsewhere.
Team 1's Leader's Story: She wants to train with the leader of Team 2!
Stage 1: Team 1 and 2's leaders fight a certain amount of mooks within a time limit while bantering.
Stage 2: Team 1's leader is set up against two of Team 2's teammates and fights them by herself.
Stage 3: Team 1 and 2's leaders fight against 4 and 6's leaders.
Stage 4: Team 1 and 2's leaders fight against 3 and 5's leaders.
Stage 5: Team 1's leader fights Team 2's leader.
With that, even just through banter and minor cutscenes, even if it's totally disconnected to the story modes (which is totally fine, there's absolutely zero reason these things to do anything like that because nothing is necessarily connected - you just need to get a general idea when all is said and done), you now have even more added to the relationships and narrative of the game. But let's go on!
Team 3's story:
Chapter 1: We learn it's a new ninja school created by a former student of Team 5's school so there's a rivalry there. Mook fights for the first stages, the last stage is Team 6 coming to issue a challenge against Team 3 by means of smackdown.
Chapter 2: Team 3's leader has confidence issues so she decides seeks out Team 1, who has a good reputation as good shinobi, for help, but they have to travel since Team 1's school is far away, so there's a series of tough mook missions again in this chapter.
Chapter 3: When Team 3 finally arrives, it turns out Team 1 is missing! Luckily, a random member of Team 2 is around and decides to lend Team 3 a hand, and so we get another training chapter. The chapter ends with a dramatic twist - the leader of Team 1 arriving and striking down the leader of Team 2, who the leader of Team 3 has become fast friends with!
Chapter 4: Team 3 gets trained by Team 1 in the most unexpected way they could have thought - by beating the mind control out of them!
Chapter 5: Team 3 and Team 1 together takes on Team 4. Supernatural stuff is kept on a smaller note here, instead hinting at something else, and Team 3 leaves Team 1 on good terms and returns home for their battle with Team 5...
Chapter 6: ... which they have!
Now here's another important thing to notice: With this model, despite how I've yet to make up a story mode for them, Team 2 has played an important role twice now. Because the stories aren't following the same relative plot and aren't being formulaic, while still using the same model, there's a lot of room to do a lot of cool stuff to be done.
Team 3's Leader's Story: She wants to prove herself to 5's leader!
Stage 1: Team 3's leader and one of her teammates fight a bunch of mooks trained by a member of Team 5, who they fight at the end.
Stage 2: Team 3's leader is ganged up on by two members of Team 5.
Stage 3: Team 3's leader fights Team 5's leader.
Stage 4: Team 3's leader fights two of her own teammates.
Stage 5: Team 3's leader teams up with Team 5's leader to fight 4 and 6's leaders! It turns out 5's leader was just being tsundere towards her all along.
Team 4's story:
Chapter 1: In a jarring twist of events, the first few stages are nice and everyone in Team 4 is really friendly in their solitary mountaintop school until Team 6 comes in and ruins everything. If Team 4 doesn't cooperate, horrible things will happen!
Chapter 2: Their first target is Team 5. Team 5 gets beaten down brutally and they see Team 4 as they're seen in other stories, while we see how Team 4 feels about it all - conflict abound!
Chapter 3: Two members of Team 4 run away, first stage is one of them as the leader with the other as an NPC fighting mooks as they flee together. Meanwhile the other two (sans leader) are in disagreement over what to do, when 4's leader is hit with the mind control they dished out to 5 after nearly killing them - oh no! Play as 4's leader powered up destroying her teammates and enjoy the guilt. Back to the runaways, play as the other one in a stage that is closer to wherever they're fleeing to, then enjoy having to play as the two members the leader beat up earlier, now mind controlled themselves, coming down to bring back the runaways by force.
Chapter 4: Having given up, Team 4 goes along with whatever they're ordered by 6. You get to play as suped up versions of your characters and take on members of Teams 1 and 2 in 1v2 throwdowns that leave most of those teams down and ready to be controlled, but just as the leaders of 1 and 2 are about to be finished off, Team 5 appears, having been rescued by Team 3, and together all four teams chase off the severely outnumbered Team 4.
Chapter 5: Some members of Team 4 are feeling hope after seeing the other teams break free, but they're beaten down by it and sent slaughtering mooks of the other teams' schools. It cracks more with each fight and there's a confrontation with the teams towards the end.
Chapter 6: Team 4, inspired by the other teams they met across their journey, rebels against Team 6, who it turns out is only unlockable after beating 1-5's stories, and is successful in doing so! ... and everyone ends up dying horribly after their fights, but they all have smiles on their faces as they go.
Team 5's story could have them more involved with the supernatural aspect of things and helping 4 out of their BAD END a little more, Team 2's could be another lighter one to balance things out given how 1, 4, 5, and 6's stories go, while in 6's, they could decide to completely disregard using 4 as pawns (or maybe 4 gets away to seek aid from the other teams, giving them all advance notice) and just go all out and go after everyone else themselves - and look at that, now the series even has some villains to reuse once the credits roll.
Once all is said and done, you have some vague idea for characters now (I'm assuming that either all these teams are "new" or not established yet, or 1 and 2 were the only established ones prior to this hypothetical game) that can then carry over into future titles in a similar manner. Characters have gotten themselves established, relationships have been formed while others have the potential to form, and right here you've got a whole plethora of ways to go in future games.
I think my stance on this stays largely the same. Too many characters would only further accentuates the repetitive nature of the game, especially multiple story modes. After Sk2 and EV, I think Marvelous and Tamsoft have at least come to that consensus. It just makes it alot more convoluted with the different story modes especially when they don't sink up. This was a problem with both Burst and SV. It also makes it alot less cumbersome to write a streamlined narrative and story. However, with so many characters, you run the risk of alot of em getting unused/underutilised and yadayadayada, I think you get my point by now. xD |
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Post by Seventh on Apr 20, 2015 22:22:12 GMT -5
In my opinion, the ultimate goal is that you want people replaying your game, as a developer. If your game isn't something people want to replay, and worse, if "making" people play it is a problem, then that... probably is a problem the gameplay people need to address, I think. Plus, even if a game is repetitive, if it's fun, it can still be worth replaying, and simply offering a multitude of stages doesn't make it inherently repetitive if the goals are different (as the ones I suggested were). People (myself included) can put hours and hours and hours into Warriors games if they're good, and those are said to be some of the most repetitive games around. I think it's only especially convoluted if something happens in one route that required a really big trigger in the other - Hanzo being able to keep up with Hebijo in the Hebijo story despite needing all that training in their own in Burst would be an example of this. I think what it really gets down to is just that you need a skilled writer - and multiple storylines even for single characters isn't that unheard of, by the way. You do run that risk! That's why you have the single character modes. You can maybe throw out the especially less used ones more often, or just make sure to not give them a bad one, if nothing else.  And to be clear, I'm not saying SV was a work of art or anything - the formula its story modes used need to go (hence my take on the concept) and more than anything, I just think Burst's writing was really... not good.  |
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Post by ChaddyFantome on Apr 20, 2015 22:41:57 GMT -5
In my opinion, the ultimate goal is that you want people replaying your game, as a developer. If your game isn't something people want to replay, and worse, if "making" people play it is a problem, then that... probably is a problem the gameplay people need to address, I think. Plus, even if a game is repetitive, if it's fun, it can still be worth replaying, and simply offering a multitude of stages doesn't make it inherently repetitive if the goals are different (as the ones I suggested were). People (myself included) can put hours and hours and hours into Warriors games if they're good, and those are said to be some of the most repetitive games around. I hardly see how making the player play the game five times is gonna make them want to play it again. If the game is worth replaying, the developer shouldn't have to make the player arbitrarily go through it multiple times. it should be worth replaying in it's own wright. It's one of the complaints people had with Sonic Heroes where the game felt needlessly padded and bogged down do to the player having to essentially play it 4 times to get the final ending. Again, I will point to Sonic Heroes on this as well. I think the main reason the stories ended up so drastically different and convoluted is because they wanted to give the player incentive to play them all. If all the stories did intertwine perfectly, as stated before, it would feel very repetitive going over the same plot elements over and over. it's not as bad with 2 stories, but I know personally alot of people that would be infuriated with having to go through the game 5 times in order to complete it. (I am a completionist and am very tolerant of repetitiveness in games actually, but that doesn't make repetitively an non-issue simply because it doesn't affect me as bad as others. ) I fail to see how this would pan out well. If the individual characters modes are selective, it would come off as very shoddy. there is no reason that we should get individual stories for some characters while not others. maybe it's just my "OCD" but this just bothers me and feels very compensatory. Assertion without reasoning can be dismissed without reasoning. =PMaybe you didn't like Burst's story, but it is clear to me and everyone that I speak of the series with that is was definitely a nice little gem and one of the games most redeeming factors. |
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Post by Seventh on Apr 21, 2015 0:20:07 GMT -5
I hardly see how making the player play the game five times is gonna make them want to play it again. If the game is worth replaying, the developer shouldn't have to make the player arbitrarily go through it multiple times. it should be worth replaying in it's own wright. It's one of the complaints people had with Sonic Heroes where the game felt needlessly padded and bogged down do to the player having to essentially play it 4 times to get the final ending. If you actually look at my suggestion, you might notice how, and this is important, I outlined how each story mode would not only have a different story, but different stages as well. You wouldn't be playing through the same game an arbitrary number of times at all, at least in the scenario I'm presenting. If all the stories did intertwine perfectly, as stated before, it would feel very repetitive going over the same plot elements over and over. it's not as bad with 2 stories, but I know personally alot of people that would be infuriated with having to go through the game 5 times in order to complete it. (I am a completionist and am very tolerant of repetitiveness in games actually, but that doesn't make repetitively an non-issue simply because it doesn't affect me as bad as others. ) Er, now I really have to ask, did you actually read what I wrote? Because not only did I not suggest this (in fact my suggestion was fairly far from "playing the same story over and over again" and was something I specifically wanted to avoid with it), but I even said I didn't think SV's formula for that worked. I fail to see how this would pan out well. If the individual characters modes are selective, it would come off as very shoddy. there is no reason that we should get individual stories for some characters while not others. maybe it's just my "OCD" but this just bothers me and feels very compensatory. No no, what I mean is that all the characters have stories, but some might appear within them more than others if they need it so that the overall screentime can balance out. For example, let's say that in Shinovi Versus 2 Electric Boogaloo, Yagyu doesn't get much screentime in the main story as people would have liked. This can be remedied a little by having her appear more frequently in the story modes of other characters in addition to her own - maybe she accompanies Hibari during a stage or two of Hibari's story, perhaps Mirai challenges her to some kind of race for whatever reason in Mirai's storyline, and so on. It's not the same as her being in the main story, no, but as far as her being in the game, it's still Yagyu doing things - and because of how the story is divided, as I suggested, we don't necessarily have to worry about cramming all the teams in every single story mode. That's something important about this sort of thing that SV really messed up, if you ask me. Maybe you didn't like Burst's story, but it is clear to me and everyone that I speak of the series with that is was definitely a nice little gem and one of the games most redeeming factors. For me, it actually made me stop playing it on more than one occasion - I can't say that's ever happened with any other game, so that's certainly some kind of gem, I guess. I don't hate it, to be clear, and quite liked most of the Hebijo mode (... until it decided it needed a plot), and I love the gameplay, but yeah. Anyway, one more thing I guess-- {This explanation to the multiple story thing, as I envision it, might help some, maybe?}By playing Team 1's story first, you are introduced to Team 2 as friendly characters, Team 4 as antagonistic characters, and Team 5 as characters with some kind of knowledge of what's going on. The ending ties into supernatural elements and foreshadows that there's more to be learned, which a player would infer that they could find in another route of the game.
From there, you might be inclined to play any one of their stories. To make things more like a game proper, let's say 1-3 are the starting teams, 4-5 are unlocked after beating the three of those, and 6 after all five. This now gives the player objectives and goals to accomplish, which is a big part of game design to consider. Rather than offering all of them at once, now the player's options are much less daunting, but not only that, this can be used to benefit the player as well.
Returning to the example, by playing through 1, out of your initial options, only 2 was initially available, so maybe you'll be more inclined to go for them next. Alternatively, maybe you want to go to 3, as they're someone completely new. Either way, your curiosity will likely surely be whet for 4 and 5, so knowing they're unlockable, if nothing else, you now have the goal of unlocking their paths.
By playing 3's story, despite not having the most serious story compared to others, you still learn more about Team 5's history and origins (which I mistakenly wrote as 6 at the end of their first chapter), and you'll see more hints that Team 4 might not be as in control as they might appear in 1's story. Both of these things will be big later on.
2's story is there to provide balance to the game's largely more serious atmosphere, as this series is about balance, or so I've been told, and maybe could have these characters learning about the supernatural things without actually getting involved with Team 4 like in the other stories, so it provides education, so to speak, while still being unique in its own right. 5 might make some appearances here due to how they're involved in the supernatural part of the story, and 1 would naturally appear because they're friendly with 2. If you play this one first, you then have reason to be interested in 1 and 5 at the very least, as well as reason to be happy when 2 shows up in other stories, and you have some knowledge you might not have going into the other stories that you do by playing this one. We could also see more perspective on the 1 and 2 relationship, maybe taking a chapter to rewind and take place before the game's events, for example. This could be used to catch players up, if these are returning characters, or help establish an established relationship.
Once those are out of the way, we now have access to 4 and 5. By this point, if we've played through the first 3, we now have sufficient reason to play through either one.
In 4's story, we learn that there's been a lot going on behind the scenes, and the characters who we thought were villains are actually victims. By we players taking control of them, we allow them a moment of rebellion before the end, and by playing as them even when they're being controlled, we can feel the same struggle they feel, as now we've been forced to do something we may not want to as well. In 5's, this team could delve into what's really going on with 4 and they could represent the "out of the know" teams finding out the shock of 6 being behind things, perhaps by having 3 be the victims of 4 and 6 here. This is important because a player could pick either 4 or 5 first once they become available, and so making sure to convey both sides - 4's side and everyone else's - is important.
Then there's 6. At this point, you've now played through every story, seen all the trials and tribulations of these characters, and probably don't like that you're playing as the villains - which is an important thing to do with "dark" parts of games. It's said that with horror games, the most important part is to make players do things they don't want to do. Likewise, to see this through to the end, players will need to play as the very villains that they probably want to beat up most of all by this point. It both offers an option, as people are often drawn to villains, and it allows us to explore the last piece of the puzzle that makes up the game's story as a whole.
If you'd like, let's say we could assume 6 is the "true" story path. While I'm not necessarily a fan of that school of game design with games with multiple paths, we could still go there. After we see things from 6's perspective, maybe with 6 seemingly coming out victorious, the last chapter opens up. By this point, we've learned things about all of the teams, their motivations, what they know, and while not every team might know everything about the situation, we, the player, do.
The last chapter could play out with all the teams gathering together and pooling their power into one team to go off and fight. This could either be the "main" team, or the last cutscene could trail off with a "The ones who should go will be..." moment and turn to a character select. Then perhaps it could have you up against a monster of some kind, combining the frantic "survival mode" elements of the Daidouji/Rin battles in Burst with some of the series' monstrous bosses.
To top it off, we have the individual story modes complimenting all of this, which primarily offer character relationships forming, insight into characters, and things like that. Maybe SV's take on this concept wasn't the best, but I still stress that these can be used to add to the experience as a whole. No, they're not necessarily tied to the larger story that the story modes are all telling, but they're tied to the characters you meet throughout and that in itself is something that they add - it allows you to learn more about them, to get to know them better, and to form a relationship between them. Not like a waifu and husbando thing, but the relationship all consumers of fiction have with their medium of choice - these simply allow you to deepen those bonds, and I think that's fairly harmless. It's not like Persona's social links or a story-capable fighting game's arcade modes ever truly tie into the stories much, but you can bet they'll often add a lot to the characters they revolve around.
In essence, because games are more than just books or TV shows, you can create this kind of storytelling. It's something only games can do, and games can do so much more than that - they can do so much more than just a story that goes in a straight line. This is not really a novel concept - I've played fighting games that have a similar way to tell their stories, for example.
To bring up one specific example, while early BlazBlues went further and used time loops and such to really tie everything together in that it all happened sort of, the premise was still ultimately the same in that all the varying stories earlier in, while not necessarily matching up, provide the player with information in regards to the major story at hand as a whole, and in turn, tell them a whole story through pieces. It's something only video games can do, and yes, maybe we shouldn't jump right to 6 teams and 30 characters until SK's writers prove they can handle a smaller number, but to suggest that the concept can't work is, and I mean no offense, disrespectful to people who write for video games and even game designers, as these are decisions that take place on the gameplay level too. |
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