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Post by Dai-T on Sept 7, 2014 19:25:05 GMT -5
At the moment, my main criticism is how reliant Burst was (or is, I haven't finished it) on the tried and true "you may have beaten me through the gameplay, but I'm actually just fine whereas you're tired, so as far as the story is concerned, I am the one who one!" cliche, which really puts a hamper on the ability to enjoy the game when it keeps happening over and over again (at least throughout the first three chapters, which is as far as it happening has allowed me to get). On a completely unrelated tangent, given how rare 2D brawlers are, I'm really disappointed that "2" completely disregarded the series' roots as a brawler, and I really hope they at least make a Senran Kagura brawler again someday, even if it's just a spinoff title down the road. Regardless of whether or not 2's style is good, it shouldn't have to come at the cost of a completely different and still fun type of gameplay. The same goes for if/when they decide to change up the "Versus" series. the story is the same old stuff it is the characters you should be looking for if you can't get into the characters then the story becomes a problem. i feel part 2 is like this with so many new non likable characters it makes you focus more on the thin story. |
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Post by [Vitz!] on Sept 7, 2014 21:30:20 GMT -5
Dai-T EXACTLY! That's why I think they should enrich the story with more elements like I said before! I like the way the games show the characters in general, but the rest of the story is really a small part. I really think that character development is a good think in a story, but I don't think it's enough to make a story better.
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Post by Dai-T on Sept 8, 2014 4:53:37 GMT -5
At the moment, my main criticism is how reliant Burst was (or is, I haven't finished it) on the tried and true "you may have beaten me through the gameplay, but I'm actually just fine whereas you're tired, so as far as the story is concerned, I am the one who one!" cliche, which really puts a hamper on the ability to enjoy the game when it keeps happening over and over again (at least throughout the first three chapters, which is as far as it happening has allowed me to get). On a completely unrelated tangent, given how rare 2D brawlers are, I'm really disappointed that "2" completely disregarded the series' roots as a brawler, and I really hope they at least make a Senran Kagura brawler again someday, even if it's just a spinoff title down the road. Regardless of whether or not 2's style is good, it shouldn't have to come at the cost of a completely different and still fun type of gameplay. The same goes for if/when they decide to change up the "Versus" series. I feel the same. 2 uses an upgraded SV engine for combat. so while 3d combat is better rhe 2d is not and they have fake 2d sections in the game but nothing like the old ganes and while the 3d fighting is better that 3ds cab not handle much visuals so battles look soulless with thr dark backrounds. EV should fix all or most problems but maybe characters and story. |
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Post by Seventh on Sept 14, 2014 17:04:57 GMT -5
I didn't get your point in your first paragraph, Seventh. Could you please explain again in other words? (maybe is just my bad english, but still) Basically that having the enemy characters be repeatedly okay after beating the crap out of them gets kind of old. the story is the same old stuff it is the characters you should be looking for if you can't get into the characters then the story becomes a problem. i feel part 2 is like this with so many new non likable characters it makes you focus more on the thin story. I like the characters fine, but the story is still an important factor and it can't and shouldn't be dismissed because "you should be playing for x" or something like that. I feel the same. 2 uses an upgraded SV engine for combat. so while 3d combat is better rhe 2d is not and they have fake 2d sections in the game but nothing like the old ganes and while the 3d fighting is better that 3ds cab not handle much visuals so battles look soulless with thr dark backrounds. EV should fix all or most problems but maybe characters and story. You "feel the same," but... are kind of saying the opposite of what I was saying? |
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Post by Dai-T on Sept 14, 2014 18:46:00 GMT -5
I didn't get your point in your first paragraph, Seventh. Could you please explain again in other words? (maybe is just my bad english, but still) Basically that having the enemy characters be repeatedly okay after beating the crap out of them gets kind of old. the story is the same old stuff it is the characters you should be looking for if you can't get into the characters then the story becomes a problem. i feel part 2 is like this with so many new non likable characters it makes you focus more on the thin story. I like the characters fine, but the story is still an important factor and it can't and shouldn't be dismissed because "you should be playing for x" or something like that. I feel the same. 2 uses an upgraded SV engine for combat. so while 3d combat is better rhe 2d is not and they have fake 2d sections in the game but nothing like the old ganes and while the 3d fighting is better that 3ds cab not handle much visuals so battles look soulless with thr dark backrounds. EV should fix all or most problems but maybe characters and story. You "feel the same," but... are kind of saying the opposite of what I was saying? it is a game advertising cute girls no onr will die and they will come back many times. it is anime much like comics you have to either go with the worlds rules or stay clear of these publications and media on this subject. |
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Post by Seventh on Sept 14, 2014 20:34:00 GMT -5
Which part are you even replying to? Either way, there's a lot wrong with that - first off, in Burst, killing is mentioned even if the cast isn't big on it (though Yagyuu explicitly mentions it in regards to the Hebijo girls during the "rescue Hibari" arc), and every anime is different - even a lot of comics are too. If someone dies and comes back in one thing, it doesn't mean they will in every other thing of the same or a similar medium. Just because there are Dragon Balls in DBZ doesn't mean that everyone in Random Shonen Series X can come back from the dead the same way.
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Post by [Vitz!] on Sept 15, 2014 7:02:06 GMT -5
Maybe that part of dying in the series not being taken serious is because of "protecting the cuteness" thing, but it isn't a good excuse and makes the story looks silly.
To be honest I think they should work better in that possibility of dying in the series. Maybe if they ad more "blood" and "true damage" and make a better use of the "cloth damage" trope things will look better. They could make a character being in the "near death" situation (like One Piece does) a lot.
About the cloth damage: For the series your clothes as a ninja are your battle armor and if they "break" you don't have much of defense. It would be cool if they added some scratches and a bit of blood in the moment of the cloth damage or only after it, but the "problem" would be the sexyness and cuteness going away. :v
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Post by tzitzimine on Sept 15, 2014 10:41:27 GMT -5
Oh boy, how I never saw this thread before?
Okay, first thing first; story.
Something important to keep on mind is that Takaki and Tamsoft are limited as how they can develop the story due to the games being action oriented, if the games were RPG (or a VN) then it would be different but as stands now they need to keep things simple.
Personally I prefer story over gameplay anytime but I'm on the minority, gameplay being the most important thing on a game design is still king for the masses. This leave with either developing the story either on a game more suited for that or on supplementary materials.
Now other important thing to consider is that are the characters what make the story on SK so special (because let's be honest here, Burst's story is pretty generic all things considered) but the characters dynamics, their backstories and their quirks are what elevate something pretty standard into something really unique.
The comparison to comics can't be more apt, and as seventh pointed out, they don't shy away of violence (Hebijo goes straight for the kill every time) and while the main cast will never be in risk of dying (unless is what if scenarios like Miyabi's group on Versus) that doesn't necessarily takes away any seriousness from the plotting. They moved the story past the point where dying is the only concern and is now on a more intospective viewpoint, where the concern is the "what now?, What I should do with my life/goals/purpose?", a great pick for a character driven story in my opinion.
Lastly, any serious visual damage will be contained on suplemental materials and not just because pretty girls are the focus or the series but because it seems something "missing" from the Japanese game design (or at least I don't remember a game where bruises,cuts and the like are part of a game. It is important for western games like the Batman Arkham series). If you want something like that I recommend you to look at the manga Guren no Hebi, by far my favorite take on Burst's story and that is the mature version of the story compared to the other versions.
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Post by Dai-T on Sept 15, 2014 11:47:54 GMT -5
comparison to comics is spot on because they are both non sense in the eyes of someone who wants real stories with people. comics and anime are fantasy you have to first accept that going in if the person does not it is all the same to them
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Post by tzitzimine on Sept 15, 2014 12:22:52 GMT -5
I don't see what is your point (aside of stating the obvious), I mean, everyone is aware the stories are ficticious and so have breaks from reality. If one wants to read real stories with people then it should pick a historic novel or a seinen/yosei series.
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Post by Dai-T on Sept 15, 2014 12:34:06 GMT -5
because it was my original point to not try to turn this in to a my this is better then that. it always happends in talks with Japanese stuff and something western is mention ot the other way around.
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Post by tzitzimine on Sept 15, 2014 13:08:12 GMT -5
I never tried to imply that (and personally I don't see what is the difference between shounen series and american superhero comicbooks), I mentioned the bit about the japanese design since I don't remember that being something important on japanese games while is something important on the western design. I just use the Batman Arkham series where the damage to the main character is a important feature and therefore somewhat similar at the suggestions of "realistic" damage in Senran Kagura.
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Post by ChaddyFantome on Apr 18, 2015 17:35:59 GMT -5
Hey, I just noticed this topic and I though I could add something. How about introducing custom moves for the characters? Introduce more RPG elements to the level system. As it is, the level system makes the characters feel weak/unsatisfying at low levels and only feel satisfying once you actually get high enough levels, instead of making them feel like they are getting more powerful over time. Also, I think the cast is getting to large for its own good. Beat-em-Up/Brawlers are inherently repetitive in nature and the sheer amount of characters and story modes in SV only made it oven more apparent. This was even worsened by the fact that the missions were lacking in the variety department. I haven't played EV yet so I don't know if this was remedied, but having the missions all be Defeat Mooks -> Defeat Girl -> Win was very draining after the 2nd story. The option to make custom outfits like in AnimalCrossing NewLeaf that you could share via QR code would be awesome too. On a side note, I'd LOVE if we got a game where the girls were adults and did legit ninja operations.  Think something like a Senran Kagura Z. |
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Post by tzitzimine on Apr 18, 2015 23:07:33 GMT -5
Hey, I just noticed this topic and I though I could add something. How about introducing custom moves for the characters? Introduce more RPG elements to the level system. As it is, the level system makes the characters feel weak/unsatisfying at low levels and only feel satisfying once you actually get high enough levels, instead of making them feel like they are getting more powerful over time. Also, I think the cast is getting to large for its own good.Beat-em-Up/Brawlers are inherently repetitive in nature and the sheer amount of characters and story modes in SV only made it oven more apparent. This was even worsened by the fact that the missions were lacking in the variety department. I haven't played EV yet so I don't know if this was remedied, but having the missions all be Defeat Mooks -> Defeat Girl -> Win was very draining after the 2nd story. The option to make custom outfits like in AnimalCrossing NewLeaf that you could share via QR code would be awesome too. On a side note, I'd LOVE if we got a game where the girls were adults and did legit ninja operations. Think something like a Senran Kagura Z.I agree with this wholeheartedly. This is another reason the fanbase is so fractured, most of them see the game like one would see a fighter or a musou game. Problem is that a fighter can allow itself to have tons of characters because the story is secondary (unless you're Netherrealm or ArcSys) and Musuous lift their roster from other sources so the character development is already done. Senran Kagura on the other hand is building its characters and setting, adding new characters with each new iteration makes impossible for them to receive proper development and as you pointed out. SK is a type of where more characters barely makes an impact on the long run. A game with the girls out of school would be amazing but the japanese have an allergy for adult protagonists. |
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Post by Seventh on Apr 19, 2015 12:52:01 GMT -5
You'll run the risk of killing your franchise if you don't keep adding some new characters, though. This is a series of brawlers, that's not something you can deny. I wouldn't say even the Versus games are musous, and that's a position I'll hold until the games actually start looking like them, but they are brawlers.
I'd also say that it's really debatable if the characters should get development in the first place. With this kind of video game, I think one could easily argue that it's much more important to make sure characters don't develop so that they can always be the familiar characters fans know and newcomers recognize - it's basic business. You'll put people off if you start drastically changing your characters up like that. Maybe that's something that hurts the narrative, but in the interest of keeping the series alive, you gotta do what you gotta do. In all seriousness, a skilled writer should be able to balance a big cast with decent writing - video games offer many options for that to be possible, especially ones like this that offer the option of multiple story modes.
If it doesn't happen, then it clearly just wasn't a priority in the first place.
That said, musou games may use existing characters, but most of the time, they still go through the story. How well you see the story will vary from game to game, but because they keep going through the same story, you do at least get it - but it's not like they just don't have development, it's just that many of the games already have it done. Not because they're based off something else, but because another game already covered it much more in depth so in this one they might be much more brief about how much they cover. What's more, the Warriors Orochi series, while lacking in the development part a bit, has completely original stories and battles at times, and those are all pretty well done too, I'd argue.
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![[Vitz!] Avatar](http://storage.proboards.com/3513897/avatar/E0o7PtWP25ea1NYurecA.png)
Think something like a Senran Kagura Z.