Lupin
Emerald Star
Posts: 95
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Post by Lupin on Dec 26, 2016 22:25:09 GMT -5
Where to start. First off, in regards to the story, I am starting to wonder where it is going. I am feeling that it is all becoming pointless. I want to see more of the Yoma, and more of the higher ups in the shinobi world. There are way too many stories to be told from this series's lore, but it is all getting wasted. I have seen people debating whether the story should be serious or lighthearted, but I feel that what matters the most is that it does not become too dark to where I don't care, or too goofy to where the series becomes a parody of itself.
Some have said that the amount of characters have made the story diluted, and while I don't necessarily disagree, there are plenty of franchises with many more characters that doesn't directly suffer from a large cast. It is more that, in Senran Kagura's case, that some characters are blatantly favored over others. When the main characters begin to get eclipsed, then what is the point in having them? It is especially bad since, if I recall correctly, none of the Gessen girls are favorites of Takaki, so it makes it seem much more like cynical pandering. I would also say that some characters are mishandled, such as becoming more shallow than what they used to be, or not giving them enough screen time. I'd like to see meaningful interactions in a higher quantity, such as Ryobi seeing her dead sister,
As for the giant bland ice cone in the room, it is my opinion (emphasis on opinion) that Yumi is both over-saturated, and overrated. I think I may be alone in saying this, but I kind of preferred Yumi back when she was a knight templar style of character. The ice cone may have been sour, but at least it had flavor. Besides, that archetype is one of my favorites since it explores morality. It was interesting to see Yumi's ideals contrasted against how things actually were. I have seen plenty of people say that us "Yumi haters" just don't like that Yumi is more popular (in terms of polls) than our favorite characters, but I don't think it is that simple. It is more of the fact that we don't feel she is deserving of that spot. While I will admit that I tend to find popular characters overrated, I at least usually understand why they are popular. Yumi? Not too much. Characters at the top of popularity polls have usually earned it in some way, whether because they are the most complex, interesting, powerful, or cool character in the story. Aside from strength (which is always a point of debate) I don't feel that Yumi wins in any of them. Well I guess I do understand why, but I always detest over idealized wish fulfillment characters.
Finally, there is the fanservice. Frankly, it feels like the series is becoming more generic in that regard. In Estival Versus, I was hardly impressed by the "sexy" outfits since it felt that they trying too hard to be titillating. I personally prefer to see cute casual wear, but that is just me. I will also be nice to see different kinds of fanservice, because those special finishes from EV got real old real quick. Someone bought this up already, but I want to reiterate that more diverse body types are also welcome. There are other parts of the body that people have fetishes for aside from breasts. As a side note, I saw a few people vote for their favorite NW character on the FaceBook group literally based on how has the biggest bust size. I don't want this series to become a mindless one where it is about which character has the better 'assets". I got into this because it had respect for itself and its characters, but now it seems like it has become a cynical cash cow that gets money from those that couldn't care less about anything other than the fanservice.
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rbv
Sapphire Star
Waiting for Senran Kagura Peach Beach Splash
Posts: 20
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Post by rbv on Dec 26, 2016 23:04:06 GMT -5
Just something simple. Nintendo Switch, if ever there is a SK game coming out for it and the Senran Kagura dev's hands are force to censor any content by because of nintendo's policy then I'm not getting the Nintendo Switch.
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Post by Lightning Lord on Dec 27, 2016 0:07:06 GMT -5
I apologize in advance for any typos, because I am typing this all up on my phone. With that out out of the way...
Originally, I was drawn to this series because of the characters and the fan service they brought (I think most people fall into this camp). When I first played Shinovi Versus, however, I was surprised at how much effort was put into the characters to make them unique, as well as their own personal backstories, which made them even more endearing. There was humor, sure, but there was also a lot of darker elements at play which gave a nice contrast. Now, I have only played the Versus games but I can agree with the sentiment of feeling like characters were dumbed down and pushed aside in favor of others. Katsuragi is one of the more notable examples to receive this treatment--In SV she had a nice subplot involving her parents but in EV she has been nothing but "I want to grope boobs" for the most part. I mean, I get that's what she does, but I think the series is far too young to already have someone like her devolve into something so two-dimensional... especially since her story hasn't even been fully finished yet!
I also have to express concern over the constantly growing cast of characters. More isn't necessarily better and the more characters that are included, the harder it will be to write a story that properly accommodates them. I think a smaller cast would do wonders for the storytelling, but I am worried that the developers won't have what it takes to take this sort of initiative. We can already see that with Peach Beach Splash, which is not only being touted as a mainline game, but is boasting over 30 playable characters. Where do we draw the line here? Furthermore, when we finally reach that point where characters HAVE to go, do we base this decision solely on popularity polls? I for one would hate to see interesting characters dropped simply because they aren't deemed "popular" enough.
The other problem is, ironically, out of all these characters there is a distinct lack of a true antagonistic threat. There was Dogen who uh... died. Then there are the yoma which have been reduced to just cutscenes as well. Apparently the 3DS games let you actually fight yoma, so why not go back to that? It sure would help break up the monotony of constantly fighting other characters all the time. Actually, more varied missions in general would be welcomed.
Lastly, I would like the series diversify itself more with spinoffs. Preferrably, these games would bring more focus on select characters and would help to expand the lore of the series. That way the main series doesn't have to feel pressured into including 30+ characters per game but the girls are still guaranteed their time in the limelight regardless.
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Post by UltWing on Dec 27, 2016 2:16:47 GMT -5
Just something simple. Nintendo Switch, if ever there is a SK game coming out for it and the Senran Kagura dev's hands are force to censor any content by because by nintendo's policy then I'm not getting the Nintendo Switch. Guess who got an invite to the Nintendo Switch Presentation 2017? I hope he enjoys the event and continues to do what he loves to do. Edit: Mod help please. The Twitter link will not show up twitter.com/kenichiro_taka/status/813393348824174592
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Post by cavaco on Dec 27, 2016 5:55:07 GMT -5
If the goal of this letter is to give Takaki some feedback and constructive criticism, here are some ideas for future Senran Kagura games: - Give more focus to the original girls (Hanzo Academy and Homura's Crimson Squad). - Avoid giving too much spotlight to Yumi, as it is becoming saturated. - Do not introduce too many new characters. I think the only new characters that should be introduced in future games should be the Junior Classes from Hanzo and Hebijo (led by Ayame and Souji), and the squads led by Yuyaki and Leo; and even then this new characters should not become "main" characters, I mean, they should not appear in the story mode of every single game. They should only show up in certain games where they are useful to the plot, and as for the other games they should only be available as DLC characters. The same goes for the already introduced Naraku, Kagura and Mikagura Sisters. - Senran Kagura needs a recurring villain that is more charismatic than Dogen and that unlike the Hebijo girls is actually evil and won't end up being friendly with the other shinobi. I suggest the Senki Shu squad from New Wave, as their designs are cool and they look truly evil, and on top of that there's the connection with the Yoma and Leo's squad which would make it easy to introduce them to the story. However, it doesn't mean every single game should feature this villains. - Use the Yoma carefully. Yoma have cool designs and are interesting adversaries, so the girls should fight them frequently. However, at the same time, Yoma are also supposed to be the ultimate evil in Senran Kagura's world, so they shouldn't be more common than the "normal" foes shinobi supposedly face in their everyday missions (criminals, terrorists, corrupt politicians, corrupt corporations, etc). Yoma summoned by a charismatic recurring villain should become the usual final bosses of Senran Kagura games, but they shouldn't show up more frequently than that. Meanwhile, the girls should fight more "normal" adversaries, like criminals and terrorists, instead of spending the whole time fighting each other. - Allow weapon customisation and give each girl a different body. Some girls can be skinnier while others can be chubbier. Some girls should have more voluptuous asses. - Trying a new kind of gameplay in Peach Beach Splash was an excellent idea. So please keep doing that in future games. Some ideas: 1. a fighting game (like Street Fighter); 2. an action 2D platformer (with 3D graphics); 3. A top down shooter (with melee combat as well); 4. a stealth game. Regarding this idea, I'll repost what I've already written in the game suggestions thread: One thing I'd like to see in the future would be a Senran Kagura game with Stealth gameplay and maybe a few Platformer and Adventure elements. After all, these girls are shinobi, who supposedly are some sort of secret agents. Even if it is later revealed that their ultimate goal is actually to fight Yoma, their most common activity should be conducting covert operations. And yet, so far, most of the time all they do is fighting each other. The closest thing to an actual secret services mission was when Asuka's team was ordered to eliminate Kagura and Naraku in Deep Crimson. So I'd really appreciate a game where the girls would actually infiltrate inside buildings, immobilise guards, eliminate targets, steal secret data, kidnap, sabotage, gather intelligence... And it would be interesting if each girl had different unique "espionage" skills and in order to complete the missions the player had to use the skills of every girl in the team. For example, some girls would be better at infiltration, others would be able to hack computers, others would be better skilled at silent elimination/immobilisation, others would be able to distract enemies or even come up with excuses if they're caught ("Oh, is this a restricted area? Sorry, I didn't know, I was just looking for a toilet!")... The player could be able to switch the character he's currently controlling so that he could use the most skilled girl for each situation.
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Post by augen on Dec 27, 2016 10:01:04 GMT -5
I'd like for the series story wise to progress where some of the members graduate. That way introduction of new characters would feel more seemless. I love all the New Wave additions, but story wise it is not manageable to try to construct a narrative around dozens of characters.
Focus story mode on ten characters, have another ten as support roles, and then have another twenty as unlockables for fun.
Also, I do want the series to go PS4 and seeing Estival Versus on a big television was jaw dropping and think character models, number of enemies, and backgrounds can be pushed even more.
I really have few complaints, excited for PBS and hopeful by 2019 get another mainline entry in the series.
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Post by Theodos on Dec 27, 2016 10:21:27 GMT -5
First of all, I would like to show my gratitude for the series. My introduction to the series came from a Youtube walkthrough about Shinovi Versus I happened to stumble across. I really liked it. Beautiful Shinobi ladies competing against each other in Hack and Slash combat which I am a really big fan of the specific genre. Yes, I won't deny that I am also a big fan of Life and Hometown but that which most made me attached to the series was the deepness of the specific characters accompanied by the lively gameplay. When it comes down to Fighting games, I'm in, no matter the kind. I did a little research on the series and learned that there is also an Anime series. I decided to start with that and really loved it. Of course, the gaming afterwards was on a whole new level but still, the Anime was a good starting point. Unfortunately, I don't own a Nintendo 3DS yet so I didn't get the chance to experience the whole original timeline. Instead, I started with Shinovi Versus on the PS Vita. I really enjoyed it. I was really drawn to the characters each one unique in it's own way. I continued with Estival Versus and I really loved that too. New features, characters and more fun. It really has become one of my favorite gaming series so Kenichiro Takaki, I thank you for that.
Now, since I love this series, of course I want it to be improved. There is always room for it and as for me, my humble suggestions would be:
1. Unique body types. Even though they seem unique in the Art and Animation, they all appear identical when playing. Especially the proportions. A modification would really bring a more aesthetic as well as a more realistic feel to the characters.
2. Concerning the popularity of certain characters. Of course, everyone has their likes and dislikes. Reasons to be drawn to the specifc character. It is understandable but as a fan myself, I would love to see some balance when it comes to be given some spotlight. I don't mind a larger roster of characters. In fact, the more the merrier. I like the addition of new ones. Of course, I realize the difficulty that the story will have to go through. I'm fine with many being just DLC as long as I get to experience them in action. New appearances, personalities, fighting styles, chances to relate and possibilities. However, that which I would like to see is a more equal focus on them. The media should be able to properly advertise each one, giving fans the opportunity to know them better. When that happens solely for a select few, the rest start to seem hollow. The same applies to the screentime each character gets in the games. I am not really going to say the typical ''Give more focus to the original ones'' neither ''Discard the formers for the new ones sake''. Each character has a lot of potential. It all depends on how are you going to handle them.
3. The story. So far, I don't really have any complaints about it. I have really immersed myself in it. It is fun, touching and excitable. However, I would also like a part of the bigger picture. Although, I haven't experienced it myself, I am aware of what Deep Crimson has offered. A darker, more serious tone bringing a different feeling to the series. A deep point of the story. The Youma, a true villain, the reason Shinobi exist and what are they fighting for. I would love to see something like that returning. I believe it has a lot of potential. Especially now with the Versus series.
4. The Antagonists. I must say that I always loved the idea of recurring villains appearing in the series to antagonize the main girls. Shinobi of extremist factions, other type of warriors or those who interact with the Youma. The Senki Shu from New Wave for example could be a good opportunity. Of course, seeing the Youma themselves returning in final boss battles.
5. The gameplay. If I could suggest some improvements that would be the Awakenings. Each one of the four leaders seem to be capable of that but it would be nice if every girl could have her own type of Awakening. They could be separate from the Ultimate Secret Ninja Arts and require a certain action depending on the character. It would also probably offer a little bit of more balance between the characters. Also, certain commands for defeating a final boss as well as a variation of Aerial Rave conflicts which can also be applied on the ground when the attacks of opposing characters connect.
Pretty much, I'm hoping everything will be taken into consideration. I love to see this series keep getting stronger and wish all the people who worked on it the best !!!!
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Post by mongi291 on Dec 27, 2016 15:45:18 GMT -5
Now, I'm not gonna be overly long in writing this, mostly because what would come out would be a grammatical horror and a barely comprehensible mess. All I have to say is that, I think the series should take more after Burst and Deep Crimson than the Versus series. The focus is on the story, characters all get an equal amount of screentime in the story, Burst's optional missions were really interesting, and I loved Deep Crimson's tag team gameplay (and the combat system as a whole). As much as Japan loves Yumi, I hate how she gets treated like she's always been Asuka's rival (or even worse, when she's treated as if she always was the protagonist and Asuka her rival), while slowly flanderizing Homura and slowly sweeping her under the carpet. Yumi should get as much focus as Asuka, Homura, and Miyabi. And finally, please don't ruin the Hanzo and Crimson characters. I didn't mind at all having an entire cast composed of only 10 girls, because they were all so interesting and the relationships and rivalries between them were what made Senran Kagura my favourite series. They should get just as much focus as the characters introduced in later games.
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Post by ateliertohka on Dec 27, 2016 16:29:20 GMT -5
Fair treatment for all characters! That's basic writing 101 there! Less focus on Yumi. It's coming at the expense of everyone else, and that had to be my biggest disappointment of all with Estival.
I want for the gameplay foundations of Deep Crimson and the Versus series to come together. Frankly, this was what I wanted with Estival, and I was very disappointed that this wasn't what it was. Bring back tag-teams and co-op.
Can we have a new game with an aesthetic closer to classic arcade beat-em-ups. That was what got me interested in Burst in the first place. While we're at it, four-player drop-in, drop-out co-op would be nice, like in D&D: Chronicles of Mystara, or Konami's games based on The Simpson, X-Men, and Ninja Turtles.
I stand by my undying wish for a Hibari platformer! Maybe more exploration-based, like Spyro or Banjo-Kazooie.
Please, oh please do things with Mirai and Murasaki together. I really like seeing them interact. If we could just see something, anything with this, I would greatly appreciate it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2016 17:27:29 GMT -5
I feel like I should join in. I just got here, but I've been with the series, seeing people talk about the VS games, and playing the 3DS games, since late 2013, and I'd like to give my 2 cents.
1.) I'd like to see something more like the 3DS games and Shinovi when it comes down to the story, personally. I hear that EV's story wasn't as serious, and one of the things that I loved about Senran stories is that they're equal parts comedy and character development, and for a seemingly happy-go-lucky boobs game, they were surprisingly serious and dark. It kept the series interesting, and it's a big reason as to why I'm here in the first place. I'd like to see that continue, because personally, if the series becomes mostly about fanservice as opposed to other things that are important to me in a video game/anime/manga, then I'll most likely lose interest.
2.) The character screen-time balance, in my opinion, needs to be reworked. New Wave's balance just keeps me and many others waiting for our favorite characters to get a slice of the cake again, so we can have awesome new art for profile pictures, just to look at, or anything else, really. Yet we see a lot of the same characters, and I saw at least one person swear off of New Wave because of how there's been, honestly, too much Yumi, and not enough of... lots of characters.
And as someone who can't play the VS games as of now, admittedly, while I'm sure Marvelous has done something to make Yumi stand out, because of how much I see her nowadays, I'm starting to lose interest in her since I'm sick of seeing her everywhere. You can't go 2 inches without seeing her nowadays, when other characters seem to get the short end of the stick, even those who are close in popularity to her. If people love her, amazing! There's more fans for her, and maybe the series! But I want to learn about all of the characters, not JUST Yumi. And focusing on the big roster, and giving the player (in EVERY game) a number of reasons to love every character will surely show more people what the series is about: A Big world, with many different perspectives. NOT just one perspective.
And the existence of Multiple perspectives and motivations... Isn't that pretty close to the moral that Burst and Shinovi Versus tried to teach the characters, and the players? If the series goes against its own lessons, is it really the same thing anymore?
3.) This is a personal thing, but I would like to see a Generation 2 at some point. Seeing where the characters have gone after a time skip, new teachers, new Shinobi to teach, new situations and locations, new everything. You could see how the events in previous games affect the new generation, and the possibilities are definitely there for making it even better than the current series.
4.) I wanna see the difficulty of the 3DS games come back. I never hear anyone saying about how hard either of the VS games are, sans certain side missions or bosses. The 3DS games were challenging, especially Deep Crimson, and it's a big reason as to why I love the series. I love a challenge.
5.) I really wanna see a 2D Senran Fighting game. I've gotten into Fighting Games a lot recently, and especially with Deep Crimson's Tag System, the emphasis on PvP in the VS games, and how fights in this series generally go, a 2D Fighting game is perfect for this! Something easy to learn (good for Casuals and fans of SK games), and competitive and technical (for Fighting Game Fans) could make for a Fighting Experience that you don't get anywhere else in the genre. Well, maybe somewhere else, but SK has enough unique mechanics for a new fighting system.
No, I haven't looked at anyone else's messages. I've been too busy to do that, honestly, so I apologize if I haven't added anything. I'm just stating what I would like the series to do. More balance of screen-time, and more potential for different directions the series could go with its story, hopefully in a somewhat serious manner so that new players can be thrown into an interesting world, are paramount for me. (That and they should continue making awesome music, though that's saying the obvious.)
I probably missed something somewhere, too, and I apologize if my information is inaccurate. I don't know how long this board will be active.
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Post by Poog on Dec 27, 2016 19:32:31 GMT -5
A lot of excellent, well thought out posts. I'd also like to stress; if you disagree and feel Yumi SHOULD be getting the most spotlight or that we shouldnt bring it up, please feel free to express that. We had some people on social media who disagree, but as I said, I want this to try and be a general consensus where we represent as many people as we can, obviously not the entirety of the western community.
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Post by Drakhatos on Dec 27, 2016 20:21:51 GMT -5
Might be better to express it in another way, not sounding like we want to bash on Yumi and want her to disappear. Giving each character the same attention, and going back to the real main cast and focus on their ongoing story and development of them should sound better. Keeping everything in a neutral tone might affect Takaki and Marvelous in a positive way, if it even does. ^^
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anoncchi
Sapphire Star
Posts: 20
PSN ID: Noslptill
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Post by anoncchi on Dec 27, 2016 20:38:21 GMT -5
Regarding Yumi: If you follow promotional materials, popularity polls and New Wave you are completely bombarded with Yumi. It creates a perception that the Japanese audience is the only audience being considered and that the franchise is 'stuck' on a character that absolutely needs to be pushed in order to sell units. It also creates the perception that the series direction is being dictated by a bunch of mobile gaming whales and that the only way to beat them is by having more money. Those concerns may have some truth to them. {Spoiler}Shiki got two promotional items for PBS and they both have her paired with Yumi for suspicious reasons. {Spoiler}I still preordered them and became part of the problem because I like Shiki that much. Another issue is the divide in tastes between the Japanese fans and Western fans. We simply do not comprehend the widespread appeal of Yumi. Her archetype doesn't resonate with us in quite the same way and so her popularity is a mystery and the only answers we have for it are generalisations of the Japanese fans. It's a different story in the games; if we look at Estival Versus and consider which characters got "preferential" treatment it's definitely the twins, the Overseers and Mikarugas. They had the largest story focus and more playable missions. Yumi herself never stole the spotlight in that game's storyline and was roughly on par with her adoptive sisters terms of screentime, playable missions and story relevance. It's a bizarre situation.
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Post by Poog on Dec 27, 2016 22:23:40 GMT -5
Of course, the goal is a positive tone! We all love Senran and the last thing I want is for this whole thing to come across as hostile. For example, with the big two being Yumi and certain characters getting nerfed plot-wise, the idea is to ask for change or just a little more balance instead of flat out removing Yumi or suddenly making Homura or Katsu the new MC.
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Post by Nobu Narukami on Dec 28, 2016 1:06:08 GMT -5
While I'm all for Yumi's popularity (because I'm such a huge fan), the option of marketing and developing other fan favorite characters is wide open and available. I'm not going to say 'go back to basics with only the original cast and the 3DS story', and definitely not to drop Yumi, or the other new characters from the story all together. Just give more love and attention to the characters who most certainly need it.
This is just suggesting, but since Hikage placed in second the recent pull, giving her more focus would be welcome. Maybe a plotline with Hikage wanting to know more about her origins and why she supposedly feels no emotions would be a good idea. Or, give Murasaki and Imu more development and help them work out their problems a bit more. Again, this is mere suggestion. If Takaki does read our posts, I would like him to give it some thought.
All and all, gameplay and story doesn't need to necessarily change. Using the popularity of Yumi to bring more attention to the series doesn't have to change either. At least not too much. We just want more of our beloved Shinobi girls to be loved and not neglected.
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