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Post by Dai-T on Apr 6, 2013 20:49:57 GMT -5
Recently it is discovered that Hiden Ninpo 2 can ignore the invincibility frames of Hiden Ninpo 1, so some Hiden Ninpo 2, for example Ikaruga and Shiki's become really useful when you see anyone is using Hiden Ninpo 1. Now was this before or after the list? Im intrested in seeing how the meta game pans out as alot of games I played it was one thing then months or years later its another. Just hope players stick at it and not say oh this is it and thats it. Is all this data based on 1 on 1's and if so how is it that the character with the infinite not at the top, does it not work on everyone?
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Post by allen on Apr 7, 2013 1:19:35 GMT -5
It is after the list but I think it won't affect much as most strong characters have decent hiden ninpos. It just makes some hiden ninpo 2 more useful and hiden ninpo 1 less useful. That makes sense as hiden ninpo 2 uses 2 scrolls.
Yeah guess there would be more discoveries with the elapse of time, today wiki updated a list of characters whose jump triangle can be canceled by guard. It is very useful for those characters as it makes landing much safer.
I think the character with infinite is not ranked top because it is simply not considered at all. It is too easy for Haruka to combo anyone to death, so in most cases I think it should be banned like the infinite in many other games. JCD is the same, as long as anyone uses JCD, he is impossible to lose. Guess those broken things should be removed with the future updates.
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Post by allen on Apr 7, 2013 1:21:51 GMT -5
Thanks for your continued updates and impressions Allen24, I gave you a nice karma boost. I hope you continue to share them with the community! Thanks! Hope there would be more people to play with lol. Now it seems not many SIA member plays online modes often.
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Post by Dai-T on Apr 7, 2013 2:35:19 GMT -5
It is after the list but I think it won't affect much as most strong characters have decent hiden ninpos. It just makes some hiden ninpo 2 more useful and hiden ninpo 1 less useful. That makes sense as hiden ninpo 2 uses 2 scrolls. Yeah guess there would be more discoveries with the elapse of time, today wiki updated a list of characters whose jump triangle can be canceled by guard. It is very useful for those characters as it makes landing much safer. I think the character with infinite is not ranked top because it is simply not considered at all. It is too easy for Haruka to combo anyone to death, so in most cases I think it should be banned like the infinite in many other games. JCD is the same, as long as anyone uses JCD, he is impossible to lose. Guess those broken things should be removed with the future updates. But everything should be put on the table before out right banning. See who really is the best in the broken area's of the games with these tools then from there determine Should it be banned if only a few can use it or is it something everyone can use. Better to let things play out then jump to fox only final destination. The game does not have rankings right? I never heard anyone talk of them so it should not be that bad to experiment since there is no record.
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Post by allen on Apr 7, 2013 4:10:05 GMT -5
Actually the game has a ranking, as everyone can beat AI to farm points the ranking means nothing lol. But generally speaking those who have higher BP tend to be stronger players, there are some people farm points with AI but still there are lots of people battle with human to gain BP. Sometimes I found someone with 10000BP stronger than someone with 200000BP.
Imo if JCD is not ignored there will be only two tier, God and Human? Only DCD characters, Ryouna and Mirai can't use JCD.
As dash can hit and gain ninpo, if one use JCD over and over again and spam hiden ninpo, he is totally invincible. JCD has invincibility that is long enough to go in and out of hiden ninpos and remain untouched. If I see anyone use JCD online I simply press PS button to quit and let'em play with themselves lol.
So this should be removed as soon as possible.
As for the infinite combo, if it is considered Haruka surely will be God tier, an initial hit and at least 3000 points is gained. Rin also has a infinite but is hard as hell, but Haruka's isn't hard at all, all you need to do is press square, circle repeatedly, it requires the opponent in standing status before the first hit and the ground must be flat, but there requirements aren't hard to meet at all, so this should be removed from the game or many people will choose Haruka for the easiest auto-win method...
But surely in some cases if the teammate is bad enough that Haruka need to battle with two players even with the infinite she is bound to lose.
Ryoubi, Rin, Yomi also have ground infinite combo, but they all can be stopped by limitbreak, but Haruka's won't let the opponent has the chance to limitbreak at all, I think this is the key reason it need to be removed.
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Post by Dai-T on Apr 7, 2013 5:00:00 GMT -5
It seems the Nurff to limit break is causing all the problems. If it was like it was in the old games you can use it and either dodge or break free of all these set ups. and the facat that multiple ninpo's can be used by diffrent character at the same time in a stage is also a problem.
What do you think about that?
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Post by allen on Apr 7, 2013 5:20:38 GMT -5
Yeah I think if limitbreak is possible during the infinite it is no problem. Though limitbreak can be just guarded and punished, when used at correct time it saves some health and gain control of the character again.
I don't feel multiple hiden ninpo can be used at the same time is a problem, hiden ninpo 2 being able to punish hiden ninpo 1 is a good thing and add more depth to the combat, as it makes hiden ninpo 1 comes with both merits and demerits. Sometimes there are chances to combo two hiden ninpo together with your teammate, which is fun to use.
Personally I feel some ultra fast anti-air hiden ninpo should be made blockable, when fast, anti-air and unblockable is combined together it is almost impossible for those characters without projectiles to avoid being hit...
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Post by allen on Apr 8, 2013 11:29:41 GMT -5
www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20557596A video of JCD in a multiplayer match. This is completely balance-breaking, hope it can be patched asap. Recently I found the square,circle loop can't be stopped by just guard if you input it fast enough, which feels a little bit of awkward, don't know whether it is a intended setting or not, but as everyone can use it, it is no problem in a sense.
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Post by Dai-T on Apr 8, 2013 16:48:28 GMT -5
LOL! I would use it too. That looks like how it use to work in the first game. They tried to balance it in burst but still failed some what but this looks like the original game all over again.
I told you the meta will keep changing and people will keep finding stuff. I played Burst for months and I still was finding things long past the release.
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Post by allen on Apr 17, 2013 2:27:42 GMT -5
高木 谦一郎 @kenichiro_taka 32分 「闪乱カグラ SHINOVI VERSUS -少女达の证明-」新规追加DLC贩売の翌日4/19(金) AM10:00予定でパッチVer1.04を配信します。いくつかの不具合の修正とジャンプショートダッシュの挙动を変更します。
Looking forward to 1.04! It seems JCD will be changed to another thing. Great that those who use it online will be forced to fight by their technique LOL
Hope the infinite that can't be stopped by LB and the Sen guard will also be patched soon.
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Post by Dai-T on Apr 17, 2013 8:43:40 GMT -5
You know people dont want to fight. But he should have seen this coming with a VS mode if the 3DS games let you do the same thing even worst. Put if you limit it then you take away the fun of the fast movement. They should reset the W/L ratio for everyone.
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Post by allen on Apr 18, 2013 22:08:05 GMT -5
There is no W/L ratio so it doesn't matter. The BP only reflects how long and often you've played it lol
Just tried 1.04, it is great that JCD is removed, now there is only Sen mode turtle style and infinite that can't be stopped by LimitBreak to go.
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Post by Dai-T on Apr 19, 2013 6:45:35 GMT -5
Makes that even more stupid if there is no w/l record. so they are just trolling people and don't want to play really play.
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Post by allen on Apr 19, 2013 6:56:17 GMT -5
I think it is no problem. Actually no one takes the BP or ranking seriously, it is the technique that matters most. Though if one use strong characters he is much more likely to win for sure.
Sometimes I find random players with 10000bp tougher than those who with 400000 lol. But many things can affect this, for example if one is using DCD character, fighting with Mirai, Yagyuu or Shiki will be really painful if your opponent knows how to use them efficiently.
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Post by allen on May 11, 2013 3:29:10 GMT -5
Useful data, part of them is from 2CH,
Endurance(Sen mode,MAP: 死塾月闪女学馆-前庭,the hits can take before being staggered)
24 Katsuragi 22 Yozakura 20 Yomi Miyabi Daidouji 19 Haruka Murasaki 17 Homura Shiki 15 Hibari 14 Asuka Ryouna 12 Minori 9 Yagyuu Hikage Yumi Ryoubi 7 Mirai 5 Murakumo 4 Ikaruga Imu Rin
Relative Health (If health and defense both considered, intermediate value 780)
1473 Miyabi 1438 Yomi 1360 Katsuragi Daidouji 1176 Minori 1112 Mirai 1081 Yagyuu 1062 Yozakura 1020 Hibari 1018 Ryoubi 991 Yumi 915 Asuka 828 Ryouna 780 Imu 739 Murasaki 665 Shiki 566 Homura Haruka 517 Ikaruga 480 Murakumo Hikage Rin
Health ※ approximate value, only the length of health bar, defense not considered
1300 Miyabi 1200 Katsuragi Daidouji 1100 Yomi 1000 Yozakura Murasaki 900 Hibari Homura Haruka Shiki Minori 780 Imu Ryouna 750 Ryoubi 720 Mirai 700 Asuka Ikaruga Yagyuu Yumi 650 Hikage Murakumo Rin
Attack(intermediate value 289.5) 354 Daidouji 342 Rin 310 Yozakura 307 Yomi 304 Katsuragi Miyabi 303 Shiki 300 Homura Haruka 297 Murasaki 295 Ikaruga Murakumo 289 Hikage Imu 283 Ryouna 280 Asuka 277 Hibari Minori 276 Ryoubi 273 Mirai 270 Yagyuu Yumi
Defense(intermediate value 225.0)
250 Mirai Yagyuu 247 Yumi 244 Ryoubi 229 Yomi 226 Katsuragi Miyabi Daidouji 225 Asuka Minori 223 Yozakura 222 Hibari 219 Ryouna 217 Imu 213 Shiki Murasaki 211 Hikage Ikaruga Murakumo 210 Haruka Homura Rin
* Daidouji and Rin has different defense and health in offline modes, in online modes they are toned down a lot.
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